meshugy
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #1
Here in Washington State we cannot do test drives of Rivians. The mafia like control of the auto dealer lobby enacted legislation which prohibits new automotive sales outside of the traditional dealer model. We do have a Rivian “pop up” that has a few cars on display, but you can’t do a test drive or make a purchase there. I feel for the poor employees working there who have to explain to people a thousand times a day why they can’t do test drives, buy a car, etc. They can’t even tell people the prices, it’s totally absurd.
Anyway, because of this I had to purchase my Rivian completely site unseen. Back in October I considered a Gen 2 Dual Standard but quickly became enticed by the amazing lease deals Rivian was offering on Gen 1 Quads as well as numerous opportunities to buy Quads with under 1K mi for 70K or so. When a 2023 Quad w/350mi came up for sale at CarMax I jumped on it. I had some reservations due to all the complaints about the Gen 1 suspension as well as the Gen 2 tech improvements I’d miss out on. I gambled that the incredible value of the Quad would outweigh whatever improvements the Gen 2 offered.
Now almost three months into owning a Gen 1 Quad, I couldn’t be happier. It’s really way more car than I need and cost about as much as an upper trim Kia. The sound system is great, the range is excellent, is a beast in the snow and ice, and hasn’t had a single issue. I’ve been somewhat baffled about all the suspension complaints as my 2023 Qaud drives quite nicely. Sure, it’s still a little boaty and truck like but not the motion sickness inducing, clunky nightmare that some people seemed to have experienced. After further investigation, it became clear that there are really two types of Gen 1s: the first are the 2022 - early 2023s that have the original dampers and air springs. These are the people who had to deal with the early suspension issues and are the ones most likely to find Gen 2s a big improvement. Starting in mid 2023, Rivian started implementing what would become the Gen 2 suspension (new dampers/air springs as well as software) in the Gen 1s which explains the smoother ride of my 2023 (Aug, vin 18xxx.) This is all discussed at length here: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/gen-1-rolling-suspension-changes.37301/ Anyone with a later Gen 1 is already driving around on the same dampers as a Gen 2, so there’s much less of a difference for these owners.
Despite all this, I’ve been very curious to actually drive a Gen 2 (I’ve sat in a Gen 2 at the Rivian pop up but that doesn’t tell you much.) I just spotted a lightly used 2025 Dual Standard for sale locally: https://www.405motors.com/inventory/rivian/r1s/p055701/
The auto dealer lobby has no sway over used car dealers, so here was my chance to finally drive a Gen 2! Here are my thoughts.
My first overall impresion: THIS IS THE SAME CAR! Ok, we’re all well versed in the Gen 1/Gen 2 specs but I don’t think the vast majority of laypeople would notice much difference between the two.
Gen 2 Dual Standard Likes:
Cameras - no surprise, they are way better than Gen 1. However, didn’t make much of a real difference for me with the front/back view. However, the blind spot view is such a blurry mess on Gen 1, nice to have some decent resolution there.
Acceleration - Dual has about half the hp of a Quad, but it still has that instant torque explosion when accelerating from a standstill. Not as impressive going 30-50 but still plenty to pass just about anyone.
Lights - daytime drive, so I didn’t actually see the adaptive headlights in person but they seem awesome from the videos I’ve seen.
Handling - somewhat more precise and controlled then my Quad which feels a little “looser,” but not a huge difference here.
Gen 2 Dual Standard Dislikes:
HVAC fan - OMG, I had read complaints of how bad it is but until you experience it first hand you cannot believe how loud it is. About 10 min into my drive the fan kicked in and was so loud I could barely hear the GPS directions or stereo. I believe there is a fix for this which clearly this car hasn’t had done yet, so the new owner will have a SC visit in their future. Gen 1 fan super quiet by comparison.
Sound System - certainly the basic sound system in the Gen 2 Dual. The Elevation Audio in the Gen 1 Quad sounds far better which is what I’d expect as it’s more like the current Premium Audio option. What bothered me the most was how harsh the navigation commands sounded, edgy and grating compared to the Gen 1.
Wireless charge pad - everyone complains about the wireless phone charger, but the one in my Qaud actually works fine with my iPhone (my wife's phone constantly disconnects.) The “improved” Gen 2 wireless charger wouldn’t charge my phone at all.
Doors - I didn’t notice the weight of the door like a lot of people do (maybe the later Gen 1s already have lighter doors?) but am not a fan of the door release button. I’d probably get used to it but not sure it’s a feature anyone really wants.
Regen - I didn’t realize Gen 2 only has two regen settings. Even at this higher setting, it was very weak compared to Gen 1 which will easily bring you to a full stop w/no breaking. The Gen 2 had me coasting into intersections, breaking hard at the last second.
General Thoughts:
My biggest question going into this was: How much of an improvement was there in suspension from Gen 1 to Gen 2? After a 20 min drive, through windy roads, some highways, and a short gravel road I don’t feel there’s really much of a difference at all. Other than the somewhat, more precise handling of the Gen 2 Dual (could be tires, mine has 20AT while the Gen 2 has 20AS), the rest seemed the same: a little boaty at times and a bit bouncy over bumps. This just validates what I already knew: late Gen 1s already have the Gen 2 suspension. I would have loved to do an Out of Spec style scientific comparison of late Gen 1 vs Gen 2 suspension, driving both back to back over a set of various road imperfections to see how they handle it. However, I’m pretty sure I’d come to the same conclusion. After driving a Gen 1 exclusively for nearly three months, it would be plainly clear after a short drive if the Gen 2 was all that different. It really wasn’t at all….
Interesting to see the now smaller frunk of the Gen 2. Still plenty of space but I’d certainly miss being able to throw my guitar in there with plenty of room to spare which would be tough in the smaller Gen 2 frunk.
No difference in cabin noise, Gen 1 just as quiet as Gen 2 but both have passenger side wind noise above 40mph.
All in all, this experience just reinforced my belief that the Gen 1 Quads are a tremendous value. With the suspension improvements of the later 2023/2024 models, the only real reason to upgrade to Gen 2 would be for the forthcoming ADAS improvements (which I don’t care about) or for the increased hp of the Gen 2 Tri/Quad and/or the aesthetic refinements of the Ascent trim (I’m totally happy with the more upscale utilitarian vibe of the Adventure trim.) For the more practical minded buyer, a late model Gen 1 Quad is clearly the way to go. You get so much for your money (835hp, premium sound, air compressor, 131kwh large battery) for $40K or more less than a comparable Gen 2.
Also worth mentioning that the used car dealer’s price on the Dual Standard is substantially more than what a new one would cost. Not sure what they’re thinking, as far as I can tell it’s a Dual Standard, El Cap Granite, 20 AS tires which is $79,150 new. Maybe there’s some option i missed but I don’t see how they came up with $86K.
Anyway, because of this I had to purchase my Rivian completely site unseen. Back in October I considered a Gen 2 Dual Standard but quickly became enticed by the amazing lease deals Rivian was offering on Gen 1 Quads as well as numerous opportunities to buy Quads with under 1K mi for 70K or so. When a 2023 Quad w/350mi came up for sale at CarMax I jumped on it. I had some reservations due to all the complaints about the Gen 1 suspension as well as the Gen 2 tech improvements I’d miss out on. I gambled that the incredible value of the Quad would outweigh whatever improvements the Gen 2 offered.
Now almost three months into owning a Gen 1 Quad, I couldn’t be happier. It’s really way more car than I need and cost about as much as an upper trim Kia. The sound system is great, the range is excellent, is a beast in the snow and ice, and hasn’t had a single issue. I’ve been somewhat baffled about all the suspension complaints as my 2023 Qaud drives quite nicely. Sure, it’s still a little boaty and truck like but not the motion sickness inducing, clunky nightmare that some people seemed to have experienced. After further investigation, it became clear that there are really two types of Gen 1s: the first are the 2022 - early 2023s that have the original dampers and air springs. These are the people who had to deal with the early suspension issues and are the ones most likely to find Gen 2s a big improvement. Starting in mid 2023, Rivian started implementing what would become the Gen 2 suspension (new dampers/air springs as well as software) in the Gen 1s which explains the smoother ride of my 2023 (Aug, vin 18xxx.) This is all discussed at length here: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/gen-1-rolling-suspension-changes.37301/ Anyone with a later Gen 1 is already driving around on the same dampers as a Gen 2, so there’s much less of a difference for these owners.
Despite all this, I’ve been very curious to actually drive a Gen 2 (I’ve sat in a Gen 2 at the Rivian pop up but that doesn’t tell you much.) I just spotted a lightly used 2025 Dual Standard for sale locally: https://www.405motors.com/inventory/rivian/r1s/p055701/
The auto dealer lobby has no sway over used car dealers, so here was my chance to finally drive a Gen 2! Here are my thoughts.
My first overall impresion: THIS IS THE SAME CAR! Ok, we’re all well versed in the Gen 1/Gen 2 specs but I don’t think the vast majority of laypeople would notice much difference between the two.
Gen 2 Dual Standard Likes:
Cameras - no surprise, they are way better than Gen 1. However, didn’t make much of a real difference for me with the front/back view. However, the blind spot view is such a blurry mess on Gen 1, nice to have some decent resolution there.
Acceleration - Dual has about half the hp of a Quad, but it still has that instant torque explosion when accelerating from a standstill. Not as impressive going 30-50 but still plenty to pass just about anyone.
Lights - daytime drive, so I didn’t actually see the adaptive headlights in person but they seem awesome from the videos I’ve seen.
Handling - somewhat more precise and controlled then my Quad which feels a little “looser,” but not a huge difference here.
Gen 2 Dual Standard Dislikes:
HVAC fan - OMG, I had read complaints of how bad it is but until you experience it first hand you cannot believe how loud it is. About 10 min into my drive the fan kicked in and was so loud I could barely hear the GPS directions or stereo. I believe there is a fix for this which clearly this car hasn’t had done yet, so the new owner will have a SC visit in their future. Gen 1 fan super quiet by comparison.
Sound System - certainly the basic sound system in the Gen 2 Dual. The Elevation Audio in the Gen 1 Quad sounds far better which is what I’d expect as it’s more like the current Premium Audio option. What bothered me the most was how harsh the navigation commands sounded, edgy and grating compared to the Gen 1.
Wireless charge pad - everyone complains about the wireless phone charger, but the one in my Qaud actually works fine with my iPhone (my wife's phone constantly disconnects.) The “improved” Gen 2 wireless charger wouldn’t charge my phone at all.
Doors - I didn’t notice the weight of the door like a lot of people do (maybe the later Gen 1s already have lighter doors?) but am not a fan of the door release button. I’d probably get used to it but not sure it’s a feature anyone really wants.
Regen - I didn’t realize Gen 2 only has two regen settings. Even at this higher setting, it was very weak compared to Gen 1 which will easily bring you to a full stop w/no breaking. The Gen 2 had me coasting into intersections, breaking hard at the last second.
General Thoughts:
My biggest question going into this was: How much of an improvement was there in suspension from Gen 1 to Gen 2? After a 20 min drive, through windy roads, some highways, and a short gravel road I don’t feel there’s really much of a difference at all. Other than the somewhat, more precise handling of the Gen 2 Dual (could be tires, mine has 20AT while the Gen 2 has 20AS), the rest seemed the same: a little boaty at times and a bit bouncy over bumps. This just validates what I already knew: late Gen 1s already have the Gen 2 suspension. I would have loved to do an Out of Spec style scientific comparison of late Gen 1 vs Gen 2 suspension, driving both back to back over a set of various road imperfections to see how they handle it. However, I’m pretty sure I’d come to the same conclusion. After driving a Gen 1 exclusively for nearly three months, it would be plainly clear after a short drive if the Gen 2 was all that different. It really wasn’t at all….
Interesting to see the now smaller frunk of the Gen 2. Still plenty of space but I’d certainly miss being able to throw my guitar in there with plenty of room to spare which would be tough in the smaller Gen 2 frunk.
No difference in cabin noise, Gen 1 just as quiet as Gen 2 but both have passenger side wind noise above 40mph.
All in all, this experience just reinforced my belief that the Gen 1 Quads are a tremendous value. With the suspension improvements of the later 2023/2024 models, the only real reason to upgrade to Gen 2 would be for the forthcoming ADAS improvements (which I don’t care about) or for the increased hp of the Gen 2 Tri/Quad and/or the aesthetic refinements of the Ascent trim (I’m totally happy with the more upscale utilitarian vibe of the Adventure trim.) For the more practical minded buyer, a late model Gen 1 Quad is clearly the way to go. You get so much for your money (835hp, premium sound, air compressor, 131kwh large battery) for $40K or more less than a comparable Gen 2.
Also worth mentioning that the used car dealer’s price on the Dual Standard is substantially more than what a new one would cost. Not sure what they’re thinking, as far as I can tell it’s a Dual Standard, El Cap Granite, 20 AS tires which is $79,150 new. Maybe there’s some option i missed but I don’t see how they came up with $86K.
Sponsored
Last edited: