Sponsored

2023 Gen 1 Quad vs 2025 Gen 2 Dual Standard

meshugy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Oct 18, 2024
Threads
3
Messages
172
Reaction score
115
Location
seattle
Vehicles
2023 Rivian R1S Quad Large, 2007 Volvo XC70
Here in Washington State we cannot do test drives of Rivians. The mafia like control of the auto dealer lobby enacted legislation which prohibits new automotive sales outside of the traditional dealer model. We do have a Rivian “pop up” that has a few cars on display, but you can’t do a test drive or make a purchase there. I feel for the poor employees working there who have to explain to people a thousand times a day why they can’t do test drives, buy a car, etc. They can’t even tell people the prices, it’s totally absurd.

Anyway, because of this I had to purchase my Rivian completely site unseen. Back in October I considered a Gen 2 Dual Standard but quickly became enticed by the amazing lease deals Rivian was offering on Gen 1 Quads as well as numerous opportunities to buy Quads with under 1K mi for 70K or so. When a 2023 Quad w/350mi came up for sale at CarMax I jumped on it. I had some reservations due to all the complaints about the Gen 1 suspension as well as the Gen 2 tech improvements I’d miss out on. I gambled that the incredible value of the Quad would outweigh whatever improvements the Gen 2 offered.

Now almost three months into owning a Gen 1 Quad, I couldn’t be happier. It’s really way more car than I need and cost about as much as an upper trim Kia. The sound system is great, the range is excellent, is a beast in the snow and ice, and hasn’t had a single issue. I’ve been somewhat baffled about all the suspension complaints as my 2023 Qaud drives quite nicely. Sure, it’s still a little boaty and truck like but not the motion sickness inducing, clunky nightmare that some people seemed to have experienced. After further investigation, it became clear that there are really two types of Gen 1s: the first are the 2022 - early 2023s that have the original dampers and air springs. These are the people who had to deal with the early suspension issues and are the ones most likely to find Gen 2s a big improvement. Starting in mid 2023, Rivian started implementing what would become the Gen 2 suspension (new dampers/air springs as well as software) in the Gen 1s which explains the smoother ride of my 2023 (Aug, vin 18xxx.) This is all discussed at length here: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/gen-1-rolling-suspension-changes.37301/ Anyone with a later Gen 1 is already driving around on the same dampers as a Gen 2, so there’s much less of a difference for these owners.

Despite all this, I’ve been very curious to actually drive a Gen 2 (I’ve sat in a Gen 2 at the Rivian pop up but that doesn’t tell you much.) I just spotted a lightly used 2025 Dual Standard for sale locally: https://www.405motors.com/inventory/rivian/r1s/p055701/

The auto dealer lobby has no sway over used car dealers, so here was my chance to finally drive a Gen 2! Here are my thoughts.

My first overall impresion: THIS IS THE SAME CAR! Ok, we’re all well versed in the Gen 1/Gen 2 specs but I don’t think the vast majority of laypeople would notice much difference between the two.

Gen 2 Dual Standard Likes:

Cameras - no surprise, they are way better than Gen 1. However, didn’t make much of a real difference for me with the front/back view. However, the blind spot view is such a blurry mess on Gen 1, nice to have some decent resolution there.

Acceleration - Dual has about half the hp of a Quad, but it still has that instant torque explosion when accelerating from a standstill. Not as impressive going 30-50 but still plenty to pass just about anyone.

Lights - daytime drive, so I didn’t actually see the adaptive headlights in person but they seem awesome from the videos I’ve seen.

Handling - somewhat more precise and controlled then my Quad which feels a little “looser,” but not a huge difference here.

Gen 2 Dual Standard Dislikes:

HVAC fan - OMG, I had read complaints of how bad it is but until you experience it first hand you cannot believe how loud it is. About 10 min into my drive the fan kicked in and was so loud I could barely hear the GPS directions or stereo. I believe there is a fix for this which clearly this car hasn’t had done yet, so the new owner will have a SC visit in their future. Gen 1 fan super quiet by comparison.

Sound System - certainly the basic sound system in the Gen 2 Dual. The Elevation Audio in the Gen 1 Quad sounds far better which is what I’d expect as it’s more like the current Premium Audio option. What bothered me the most was how harsh the navigation commands sounded, edgy and grating compared to the Gen 1.

Wireless charge pad - everyone complains about the wireless phone charger, but the one in my Qaud actually works fine with my iPhone (my wife's phone constantly disconnects.) The “improved” Gen 2 wireless charger wouldn’t charge my phone at all.

Doors - I didn’t notice the weight of the door like a lot of people do (maybe the later Gen 1s already have lighter doors?) but am not a fan of the door release button. I’d probably get used to it but not sure it’s a feature anyone really wants.

Regen - I didn’t realize Gen 2 only has two regen settings. Even at this higher setting, it was very weak compared to Gen 1 which will easily bring you to a full stop w/no breaking. The Gen 2 had me coasting into intersections, breaking hard at the last second.

General Thoughts:

My biggest question going into this was: How much of an improvement was there in suspension from Gen 1 to Gen 2? After a 20 min drive, through windy roads, some highways, and a short gravel road I don’t feel there’s really much of a difference at all. Other than the somewhat, more precise handling of the Gen 2 Dual (could be tires, mine has 20AT while the Gen 2 has 20AS), the rest seemed the same: a little boaty at times and a bit bouncy over bumps. This just validates what I already knew: late Gen 1s already have the Gen 2 suspension. I would have loved to do an Out of Spec style scientific comparison of late Gen 1 vs Gen 2 suspension, driving both back to back over a set of various road imperfections to see how they handle it. However, I’m pretty sure I’d come to the same conclusion. After driving a Gen 1 exclusively for nearly three months, it would be plainly clear after a short drive if the Gen 2 was all that different. It really wasn’t at all….

Interesting to see the now smaller frunk of the Gen 2. Still plenty of space but I’d certainly miss being able to throw my guitar in there with plenty of room to spare which would be tough in the smaller Gen 2 frunk.

No difference in cabin noise, Gen 1 just as quiet as Gen 2 but both have passenger side wind noise above 40mph.

All in all, this experience just reinforced my belief that the Gen 1 Quads are a tremendous value. With the suspension improvements of the later 2023/2024 models, the only real reason to upgrade to Gen 2 would be for the forthcoming ADAS improvements (which I don’t care about) or for the increased hp of the Gen 2 Tri/Quad and/or the aesthetic refinements of the Ascent trim (I’m totally happy with the more upscale utilitarian vibe of the Adventure trim.) For the more practical minded buyer, a late model Gen 1 Quad is clearly the way to go. You get so much for your money (835hp, premium sound, air compressor, 131kwh large battery) for $40K or more less than a comparable Gen 2.

Also worth mentioning that the used car dealer’s price on the Dual Standard is substantially more than what a new one would cost. Not sure what they’re thinking, as far as I can tell it’s a Dual Standard, El Cap Granite, 20 AS tires which is $79,150 new. Maybe there’s some option i missed but I don’t see how they came up with $86K.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

Erik+

Well-Known Member
First Name
Erik
Joined
Sep 2, 2024
Threads
3
Messages
165
Reaction score
186
Location
Colorado
Vehicles
2023 R1T
Occupation
Engineering
Here in Washington State we cannot do test drives of Rivians. The mafia like control of the auto dealer lobby enacted legislation which prohibits new automotive sales outside of the traditional dealer model. We do have a Rivian “pop up” that has a few cars on display, but you can’t do a test drive or make a purchase there. I feel for the poor employees working there who have to explain to people a thousand times a day why they can’t do test drives, buy a car, etc. They can’t even tell people the prices, it’s totally absurd.

Anyway, because of this I had to purchase my Rivian completely site unseen. Back in October I considered a Gen 2 Dual Standard but quickly became enticed by the amazing lease deals Rivian was offering on Gen 1 Quads as well as numerous opportunities to buy Quads with under 1K mi for 70K or so. When a 2023 Quad w/350mi came up for sale at CarMax I jumped on it. I had some reservations due to all the complaints about the Gen 1 suspension as well as the Gen 2 tech improvements I’d miss out on. I gambled that the incredible value of the Quad would outweigh whatever improvements the Gen 2 offered.

Now almost three months into owning a Gen 1 Quad, I couldn’t be happier. It’s really way more car than I need and cost about as much as an upper trim Kia. The sound system is great, the range is excellent, is a beast in the snow and ice, and hasn’t had a single issue. I’ve been somewhat baffled about all the suspension complaints as my 2023 Qaud drives quite nicely. Sure, it’s still a little boaty and truck like but not the motion sickness inducing, clunky nightmare that some people seemed to have experienced. After further investigation, it became clear that there are really two types of Gen 1s: the first are the 2022 - early 2023s that have the original dampers and air springs. These are the people who had to deal with the early suspension issues and are the ones most likely to find Gen 2s a big improvement. Starting in mid 2023, Rivian started implementing what would become the Gen 2 suspension (new dampers/air springs as well as software) in the Gen 1s which explains the smoother ride of my 2023 (Aug, vin 18xxx.) This is all discussed at length here: https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/gen-1-rolling-suspension-changes.37301/ Anyone with a later Gen 1 is already driving around on the same dampers as a Gen 2, so there’s much less of a difference for these owners.

Despite all this, I’ve been very curious to actually drive a Gen 2 (I’ve sat in a Gen 2 at the Rivian pop up but that doesn’t tell you much.) I just spotted a lightly used 2025 Dual Standard for sale locally: https://www.405motors.com/inventory/rivian/r1s/p055701/

The auto dealer lobby has no sway over used car dealers, so here was my chance to finally drive a Gen 2! Here are my thoughts.

My first overall impresion: THIS IS THE SAME CAR! Ok, we’re all well versed in the Gen 1/Gen 2 specs but I don’t think the vast majority of laypeople would notice much difference between the two.

Gen 2 Dual Standard Likes:

Cameras - no surprise, they are way better than Gen 1. However, didn’t make much of a real difference for me with the front/back view. However, the blind spot view is such a blurry mess on Gen 1, nice to have some decent resolution there.

Acceleration - Dual has about half the hp of a Quad, but it still has that instant torque explosion when accelerating from a standstill. Not as impressive going 30-50 but still plenty to pass just about anyone.

Lights - daytime drive, so I didn’t actually see the adaptive headlights in person but they seem awesome from the videos I’ve seen.

Handing - somewhat more precise and controlled then my Quad which feels a little “looser,” but not a huge difference here.

Gen 2 Dual Standard Dislikes:

HVAC fan - OMG, I had read complaints of how bad it is but until you experience it first hand you cannot believe how loud it is. About 10 min into my drive the fan kicked in and was so loud I could barely hear the GPS directions or stereo. I believe there is a fix for this which clearly this car hasn’t had done yet, so the new owner will have a SC visit in their future. Gen 1 fan super quiet by comparison.

Sound System - certainly the basic sound system in the Gen 2 Dual. The Elevation Audio in the Gen 1 Quad sounds far better which is what I’d expect as it’s more like the current Premium Audio option. What bothered me the most was how harsh the navigation commands sounded, edgy and grating compared to the Gen 1.

Wireless charge pad - everyone complains about the wireless phone charger, but the one in my Qaud actually works fine with my iPhone (my wife's phone constantly disconnects.) The “improved” Gen 2 wireless charger wouldn’t charge my phone at all.

Doors - I didn’t notice the weight of the door like a lot of people do (maybe the later Gen 1s already have lighter doors?) but am not a fan of the door release button. I’d probably get used to it but not sure it’s a feature anyone really wants.

Regen - I didn’t realize Gen 2 only has two regen settings. Even at this higher setting, it was very weak compared to Gen 1 which will easily bring you to a full stop w/no breaking. The Gen 2 had me coasting into intersections, breaking hard at the last second.

General Thoughts:

My biggest question going into this was: How much of an improvement was there in suspension from Gen 1 to Gen 2? After a 20 min drive, through windy roads, some highways, and a short gravel road I don’t feel there’s really much of a difference at all. Other than the somewhat, more precise handling of the Gen 2 Dual (could be tires, mine has 20AT while the Gen 2 has 20AS), the rest seemed the same: a little boaty at times and a bit bouncy over bumps. This just validates what I already knew: late Gen 1s already have the Gen 2 suspension. I would have loved to do an Out of Spec style scientific comparison of late Gen 1 vs Gen 2 suspension, driving both back to back over a set of various road imperfections to see how they handle it. However, I’m pretty sure I’d come to the same conclusion. After driving a Gen 1 exclusively for nearly three months, it would be plainly clear after a short drive if the Gen 2 was all that different. It really wasn’t at all….

Interesting to see the now smaller frunk of the Gen 2. Still plenty of space but I’d certainly miss being able to throw my guitar in there with plenty of room to spare which would be tough in the smaller 2 frunk.

No difference in cabin noise, Gen 1 just as quiet as Gen 2 but both have passenger side wind noise above 40mph.

All in all, this experience just reinforced my belief that the Gen 1 Quads are a tremendous value. With the suspension improvements of the later 2023/2024 models, the only real reason to upgrade to Gen 2 would be for the forthcoming ADAS improvements (which I don’t care about) or for the increased hp of the Gen 2 Tri/Quad and/or the aesthetic refinements of the Ascent trim (I’m totally happy with the more upscale utilitarian vibe of the Adventure trim.) For the more practical minded buyer, a late model Gen 1 Quad is clearly the way to go. You get so much for your money (835hp, premium sound, air compressor, 131kwh large battery) for $40K or more less than a comparable Gen 2.

Also worth mentioning that the used car dealer’s price on the Dual Standard is substantially more than what a new one would cost. Not sure what they’re thinking, as far as I can tell it’s a Dual Standard, El Cap Granite, 20 AS tires which is $79,150 new. Maybe there’s some option i missed but I don’t see how they came up with $86K.
My 23xxx 2023 quad and I agree with pretty much all your conclusions. Some of the threads on here with all the complaints I do not understand at all unless there is significant variability as they developed or from build to build. Happy I got a good one, and a little disappointed for those experiencing issues.
 

DayTripping

Well-Known Member
First Name
Timothy
Joined
Sep 12, 2024
Threads
4
Messages
688
Reaction score
846
Location
DFW
Vehicles
Gen1 R1T QM, S Plaid, Highland 3 Perf, 3 Long Range, R2 on order
Occupation
Consultant
Apparently you are preaching to the same choir that I am a member of as well. A used Gen1 quad is a tremendous value. Heck, I sold my Model Y a few years ago for more than I paid for my R1T. Sure, Covid demand had an impact at the time, but the R1T is 3-4 times the vehicle my Y was.

For me it wasn't an affordability issue, it was just the tremendous value of a used Gen1. As mentioned, a lot of the refinements in the Gen2 from a suspension perspective were already in the later 2023's. I apparently have one of them as well.

I wanted to hedge my bets by not investing too much in case I didn't like the platform from either a HW or SW perspective. Getting hammered on depreciation with my most expensive Tesla also kept me in check from wanting to buy another 100K+ EV. I'll likely keep this one until the wheels fall off or the Gen3 is too fantastic to resist.
 
OP
OP

meshugy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Oct 18, 2024
Threads
3
Messages
172
Reaction score
115
Location
seattle
Vehicles
2023 Rivian R1S Quad Large, 2007 Volvo XC70
One thing I forgot to mention is that many seem to feel the enduro motors are quieter than the Bosch. When I pressed the accelerator on the Gen 2, it delivered that familiar electric motor whine, seemed about the same as the Bosch volumewise. Personally, overly quiet motors are a negative for me, I love the sound of the Bosch motors winding up!
 

Budman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rick
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Threads
47
Messages
519
Reaction score
1,698
Location
Minnesota
Vehicles
Honda CRV
Clubs
 
Regarding the HVAC noise. If you haven’t, put the system on AUTO. It is much quieter than manual.
 

Sponsored

OP
OP

meshugy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Oct 18, 2024
Threads
3
Messages
172
Reaction score
115
Location
seattle
Vehicles
2023 Rivian R1S Quad Large, 2007 Volvo XC70
Regarding the HVAC noise. If you haven’t, put the system on AUTO. It is much quieter than manual.
this is exactly what it sounded like:



Did it for nearly 20 min, pretty much the entire time the car was moving.
 

Roads76

Member
First Name
Jeremy
Joined
Oct 10, 2024
Threads
0
Messages
24
Reaction score
16
Location
Monrovia, MD
Vehicles
Rivian R1T, Tesla Model 3
Occupation
Vascular medical
Clubs
 
Purchased my Gen 1 quad used back in October, a little less than 20k miles. El cap with Ocean mist and 20's. It is absolutely beautiful. Even with the hassle and slightly added expense of having to purchase out of state and have it shipped, it is still an amazing value for 800+hp vehicle with a beautiful interior. The bells and whistles are absolutely functional as well. Took the R1 skiing with the family yesterday, skis in the gear tunnel, everything else in the frunk with side steps to sit and put the boots on. It's the little things...
 

tpberding

Member
First Name
Tyler
Joined
Apr 9, 2024
Threads
6
Messages
23
Reaction score
15
Location
California
Vehicles
R2 reservation; R1S; Porsche Macan
I have a late (30xxx) 2023 R1S quad. This post explains why I have had no complaints about ride, handling, etc. It's all great. Interior is beautiful and acceleration is hard to believe. I now think I got the car bargain of the century considering I paid the early reservation price. Can't imagine what would be gained going to Gen 2. I do, however, have an R2 reservation and will probably add that to the fleet.
 

tubbydog12

Member
First Name
JL
Joined
Feb 3, 2025
Threads
1
Messages
13
Reaction score
7
Location
Houston
Vehicles
Considering One
Occupation
Energy Professional
I have a late (30xxx) 2023 R1S quad. This post explains why I have had no complaints about ride, handling, etc. It's all great. Interior is beautiful and acceleration is hard to believe. I now think I got the car bargain of the century considering I paid the early reservation price. Can't imagine what would be gained going to Gen 2. I do, however, have an R2 reservation and will probably add that to the fleet.
Can you offer what month of manuf the suspension upgrades made into 2023? Or the serial numbers? VIN? Trying to decide between used mid 2023 T or S
 

tpberding

Member
First Name
Tyler
Joined
Apr 9, 2024
Threads
6
Messages
23
Reaction score
15
Location
California
Vehicles
R2 reservation; R1S; Porsche Macan
Based solely on the original post above, it would seem that a VIN of a 2023 at least 18XXX and newer would have the upgraded parts.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP

meshugy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Michael
Joined
Oct 18, 2024
Threads
3
Messages
172
Reaction score
115
Location
seattle
Vehicles
2023 Rivian R1S Quad Large, 2007 Volvo XC70
Based solely on the original post above, it would seem that a VIN of a 2023 at least 18XXX and newer would have the upgraded parts.
I’ve heard many of the gen 2 improvements were introduced around 13xxx, so more like June/July
Sponsored

 
 





Top