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Dark-Fx

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As I understand it the Plug and Charge is a standard that shouldn't in theory require any team work as EA already supports it.
Plug & Charge is an ISO standard.

Plug and Charge is whatever anyone writing those words wants it to be.

Plug & Charge still requires the vendor and the vehicle manufacturer to work together to enable it.
 

RabidRat

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allegedly Rivian said:
We've confirmed that this issue is not related to the specific software version running in the vehicle. We're working to address the root issue and expect to mitigate it through a software patch by the end of this week.
It’s not software - it’s software.
It's not a regression bug is what that line means.
I don't think Rivian's comment is necessarily about a regression (or lack of), though.

My broader read of this, is they're saying this issue is just as likely to occur regardless of what software version is installed in the vehicle.

And, it sounds like they may have identified root cause, but for now the best corrective action they've come up with in the immediate term, is a mitigation (software patch), which may or may not 100% prevent this from happening again. Could be that the root cause involves hardware or inaccessible firmware (e.g. not reflashable over OTA, or on a ROM, or one-time-programmable), and they felt it didn't make business sense to send techs out to every vehicle.

As for folks who are thinking the rare occurrence means only certain trucks are susceptible: "rare occurrence" doesn't mean that it is something special to the failed trucks (though it could be). It could also mean that every truck has the same susceptibility, but upon each software update, the dice rolls again on whether this failure mode will occur.

I think it's all pretty fascinating. And in the mean time, my truck was one of the unlucky ones: I have the rubber streaks across my driveway to remind me of that. Came out to a half-dead 12V system the morning after running the SW update: couldn't get in Drive. Rivian sent a tow truck. By the time they arrived, the 12V system was unrecoverable via the rear bumper leads.

So they dragged my R1T - wheels locked, tires screeching - all the way across our driveway, to load it onto the flatbed.

Good times :).
 
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s4wrxttcs

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Plug & Charge still requires the vendor and the vehicle manufacturer to work together to enable it.
Isn't the entire point of a standardization to eliminate the need to work with a vendor?

Like if I'm a small boutique EV manufacture I should be able to add support for plug & charge without being at the mercy of charging vendors.

Plug & Charge is a requirement for the federal funding for chargers. So any charging vendor that receives this funding to roll out chargers should support Plug & Charge. Where its straight forwards for any vehicle manufacture to add support for it.

I want to be clear that I'm concerned there is a misunderstanding on my part of how Plug & Charge is supposed to work.

To me a huge hassle of charging on the road is having to deal with payment. With EA I know better than to try to use the credit card terminal so I use the App.

The "still requires the vendor and vehicle manufacture to work together" sends shivers down my spine, and takes a lot of the hope and promise of Plug & Charge away. I expect things like bugs and the normal finger pointing to happen. Certainly that's the case of other standards.
 

Dark-Fx

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Isn't the entire point of a standardization to eliminate the need to work with a vendor?

Like if I'm a small boutique EV manufacture I should be able to add support for plug & charge without being at the mercy of charging vendors.

Plug & Charge is a requirement for the federal funding for chargers. So any charging vendor that receives this funding to roll out chargers should support Plug & Charge. Where its straight forwards for any vehicle manufacture to add support for it.

I want to be clear that I'm concerned there is a misunderstanding on my part of how Plug & Charge is supposed to work.

To me a huge hassle of charging on the road is having to deal with payment. With EA I know better than to try to use the credit card terminal so I use the App.
Think of it like trying to pay with a Discover credit card but your merchant not letting you because their payment provider doesn't support it.

The way the backend is handled for P&C is sort of like this:
- The vehicle manufacturer installs a certificate in your vehicle that they have signed that verifies your vehicle is the vehicle it says it is.
- When you plug in, your vehicle is asked for this certificate. If it has one, it provides it.
- The charging vendor works with the vehicle manufacturer in order to determine who to bill for the session. If the charging vender doesn't have an agreement with "Joe Blow auto company" that your vehicle's certificate says signed it, they don't know where to send the bill. The charging vendor has to have the ability to verify your certificate was signed by the company that it says signed it.
 

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Isn't the entire point of a standardization to eliminate the need to work with a vendor?

Like if I'm a small boutique EV manufacture I should be able to add support for plug & charge without being at the mercy of charging vendors.

Plug & Charge is a requirement for the federal funding for chargers. So any charging vendor that receives this funding to roll out chargers should support Plug & Charge. Where its straight forwards for any vehicle manufacture to add support for it.

I want to be clear that I'm concerned there is a misunderstanding on my part of how Plug & Charge is supposed to work.

To me a huge hassle of charging on the road is having to deal with payment. With EA I know better than to try to use the credit card terminal so I use the App.

The "still requires the vendor and vehicle manufacture to work together" sends shivers down my spine, and takes a lot of the hope and promise of Plug & Charge away. I expect things like bugs and the normal finger pointing to happen. Certainly that's the case of other standards.
No, the reason for a standardization is so you can work with others. If not for standards every vendor would have custom interfaces.
 

rodhx

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Does it surprise anyone that now batteries require a reset in a Rivian. :p
😄 A simple 12v battery replacement as effectively required a "reset", and dealer intervention, in BMWs for many years now. I know, I know.... silly BMW tricks :facepalm:
 

s4wrxttcs

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No, the reason for a standardization is so you can work with others. If not for standards every vendor would have custom interfaces.
When I think of Standardization I think of things like USB.

Where it promotes:
interoperability
Competition
Low barrier to entrance into the market.
It just works
off-the-shelf black box solution

Where I expect to see things like 3rd party testing labs to ensure compatibility with a standard.

But, when I see things like 'requires vendor and vehicle manufacture" to work together its a bit concerning. If its a little bit to setup tokens/authorization/etc then its understandable given what its doing. But, if its significant then a small manufacture can be deprioritized very quickly especially if they don't contribute significant funds to the charging vendor.
 

s4wrxttcs

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Think of it like trying to pay with a Discover credit card but your merchant not letting you because their payment provider doesn't support it.

The way the backend is handled for P&C is sort of like this:
- The vehicle manufacturer installs a certificate in your vehicle that they have signed that verifies your vehicle is the vehicle it says it is.
- When you plug in, your vehicle is asked for this certificate. If it has one, it provides it.
- The charging vendor works with the vehicle manufacturer in order to determine who to bill for the session. If the charging vender doesn't have an agreement with "Joe Blow auto company" that your vehicle's certificate says signed it, they don't know where to send the bill. The charging vendor has to have the ability to verify your certificate was signed by the company that it says signed it.
This type of verification/certificates is pretty standard. So I don't see it as being a major hurdle in implementation.
 

dsmithsalinas

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Well, seems like update didn’t come fast enough. I believe I’ve been hit by the 12V issue now. Need to call in. Sigh.
 

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Well, seems like update didn’t come fast enough. I believe I’ve been hit by the 12V issue now. Need to call in. Sigh.
Can you check the voltage on one of your 12V plugs?


If you are totally locked out, what happens if you apply a 12-14V source to the "jumper leads" near the trailer hitch?
 

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Well, seems like update didn’t come fast enough. I believe I’ve been hit by the 12V issue now. Need to call in. Sigh.
did you do anything different? Software reset? Or did it just brick without anything different?
 

dsmithsalinas

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Well, seems like update didn’t come fast enough.
Can you check the voltage on one of your 12V plugs?


If you are totally locked out, what happens if you apply a 12-14V source to the "jumper leads" near the trailer hitch?
when I got into the truck first thing this morning, it wouldn’t allow me to go in reverse. I had to hop out and get in my other car to get to an appointment. Once I got home, my husband had gone out to check and he said the screen came on and then went black. By time I was back home, it’s now just dead. Has 130 miles in charge, so I know that’s not the issue.

I called Rivian and they are supposed to call me back with next steps.

Checking the voltage? Eh. I’m not a handy person with cars lol I’ll see what Rivian says when they call back and go from there. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

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Well, seems like update didn’t come fast enough. I believe I’ve been hit by the 12V issue now.
So the problem is caused by NOT installing the update? Seems to contradict all of those above who claim and imply the opposite. Or perhaps, just perhaps, it's not caused by the updates, as Rivian said?
 

seatosummit

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when I got into the truck first thing this morning, it wouldn’t allow me to go in reverse. I had to hop out and get in my other car to get to an appointment. Once I got home, my husband had gone out to check and he said the screen came on and then went black. By time I was back home, it’s now just dead. Has 130 miles in charge, so I know that’s not the issue.

I called Rivian and they are supposed to call me back with next steps.

Checking the voltage? Eh. I’m not a handy person with cars lol I’ll see what Rivian says when they call back and go from there. 🤷🏼‍♂️
Sorry to hear that. Sounds like a big inconvenience.

When I first heard about this, I went and checked the voltage via a multimeter on the 12V plug in the frunk. I saw 13+ volts which means the 12V battery was being charged by the high voltage, traction battery. I would suspect that in your case the voltage is less than 12 if the issue is the 12V battery being discharged.

Curious to hear what Rivian recommends, and it will almost certainly involve tow + battery replacement, but you could "jump" it via the jumper leads at the rear to at least restore 12V to get doors open, etc.

If you have 130 miles of range, it is most definitely not your fault so Rivian will have to cover it.

Good luck!

Rivian R1T R1S 2023.10.0 software update OTA released. Includes  Tesla Supercharger network option and 12v battery draining issue fix 1679506323594
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