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Coast2Coast

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The first sentence of the Motor Trend review reads, "Comparing the 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning with the 2022 Rivian R1T makes little sense", but MT goes ahead and does it anyway. Gotta ask why?

Apples-to-apples comparisons are about the comparative advantages of one product relative to another product of the same family. Apples-to-oranges comparisons are subjective and biased, and in this case are about MT's bottom line. MT wants Ford's advertising dollars and wants to be invited front and center to Ford's media events. That's okay. That's how things work.

But why not end their article in the same way they started? The Lightning and the R1T are different trucks targeted at different market segments with different strengths and weaknesses. The Ford is better at doing traditional farm and construction work and maybe Costco runs. The R1T is better at going off-road, going fast on-road and doing a lot in between.

There's no head-to-head winner and there shouldn't be. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison. It's disappointing that MT chose to pitch it that way.
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MilliM

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As a first time truck owner (Lightning Platinum) and R1S reservation holder since April '19 I'm trying to take an objective look at this, and not as a "Ford" guy just because it happened to arrive first (it's my first Ford/domestic). Still super pumped and excited for the R1S.

I'm also writing this as an average suburban dweller with my lifestyle in mind., not yours or anyone else's.

**Speed**
We have a P*2 that is plenty quick for me at 0-60 around 4.5 second. Even if the Lightning does it in 3.8 (per Motortrend) vs. 4.5 (their specs iirc) it's irrelevant. I think I've gunned it exactly twice in the 6 days I've owned it, primarily to see how it feels. I doubt I'll ever need that speed, and it will be exceedingly rare that I take advantage of it. So the fact that the R1T is faster is, to me, is basically irrelevant. My wife, who would be the primary on the R1S, will likely never accelerate faster than 0-60 in mid 5's...it's not in her DNA at all.

**Offroading**
For the handful of times a year that i go to the local mountains it's likely going to be fire-roads or average SUV-friendly trails at most, which will already be more than 95% of the owners likely do. There is some BLM land near Joshua Tree that is a dry lakebed that I can't wait to take the R1S out on, but I actually had a ton of fun doing donuts w/ our XC90 there. I won't go to Moab, won't do anything like the trail they took for the R1T presser, but it is cool to know that if the zombie apocalypse happens that the R1T/S are incredibly off-road worthy and will leave the Lightning drivers behind to get eaten alive.

**Towing**
I don't have a boat, but I like having friends with boats. Towing isn't likely something I'll do much of, but I may eat my words if I'd ever go get a trailer of some sort. For now, however, it isn't a big differentiator, and I think they both do reasonably well.

**Handling/commute**
This is where on a day to day it won't matter (I have a boring suburban/freeway commute in OC), but when heading up to the mountains I'll really wish the Lightning took the switchbacks better. For day to doy, however, it's just not that important. to me In fact, for my day-to-day driving, I am absolutely hooked on the ride height & size of the cabin. It's just so damn comfortable. Blue Cruise works on my local freeways and the braking, even with relatively abrupt slow-downs, was really smooth. I've never had massaging seats before, and while the novelty may wear off soon I've been loving them coupled with either ventilation or heat. I should note that I almost never get to push the Polestar, and I pretty much have to go on random drives to find fun roads to let (a little) loose on. If I had a more interesting commute I know I'd feel very different.

I could go on and on w/ a few of the other categories, but I think my overall point is that the Rivian is almost excessively good, supercar-like in nature, and capable of limits that few people will push. For day-to-day it may be amazing as well, but the Lightning, w/ V2H, large frunk, big bed, and history of Ford quality (sorry but I'm not seeing anywhere close to the issues on the Lightning forum as here) makes it a compelling choice too. The Platinum isn't cheap, and probably is much less competitive $$ for $$, but the more common Lariat is a really solid truck that will appeal to a ton of buyers like me that are just regular people with regular lives.

For the true adventurer (I wish I was and hope the R1S changes some of that for me) vs. the 'aspirational adventurer' the R1T is hands down the better truck, full stop. I doubt anyone could make a reasonable argument otherwise.

Everything above almost makes me ask myself why I'm getting the R1S, to which I answer, why not replace the XC90 with something amazeballs? We don't need it over the XC90, but it sure as shit will be a blast once it comes.

That being said, if it comes down to needing to pick one over the other (R1S vs. Lightning) it may be a really tough choice.
 

louisdeg

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They mentioned the gear tunnel in passing but it didn't make it into the comparison at all. That is a pretty big oversight by mototrend. I've found it extremely useful to have a long, locked, dry space that is accessible from either side (and inside). And come on, 4 cup holders is plenty. I don't get why people obsess over cupholders!

I am definitely hoping that Rivian makes some adjustments to its charging curve. I know that they are trying to protect the battery but if we could charge at fast speeds up to about 65% SOC it would make a huge difference.
Because they hold so much more than cups
 

louisdeg

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As I sit here eagerly awaiting my impending R1T delivery I was amused to discover I am replacing my 2000 Tundra -Motor Trend Truck of the Year 2000 with the 2022 Rivian… Motor Trend Truck of the Year 2022. Hopefully the Rivian will last as long (another largeish chunk of steel came off the Tundra yesterday).
 

kizamybute'

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You nailed it right there!

With the above in mind.... I'm not a contractor, but being a self sufficient homeowner- one thing that would have instantly disqualified the R1T would have been a bed width of less than 48" between the wheel wells. It's not like I'm hauling drywall or plywood all the time, but it's a huge pain when you need to bring some home in a narrow bed vehicle.
Check the numbers again, Rivian has about 50 inches between the wheel wells. Big enough to carry a typical sheet of drywall or plywood.
 

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kizamybute'

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As a first time truck owner (Lightning Platinum) and R1S reservation holder since April '19 I'm trying to take an objective look at this, and not as a "Ford" guy just because it happened to arrive first (it's my first Ford/domestic). Still super pumped and excited for the R1S.

I'm also writing this as an average suburban dweller with my lifestyle in mind., not yours or anyone else's.

**Speed**
We have a P*2 that is plenty quick for me at 0-60 around 4.5 second. Even if the Lightning does it in 3.8 (per Motortrend) vs. 4.5 (their specs iirc) it's irrelevant. I think I've gunned it exactly twice in the 6 days I've owned it, primarily to see how it feels. I doubt I'll ever need that speed, and it will be exceedingly rare that I take advantage of it. So the fact that the R1T is faster is, to me, is basically irrelevant. My wife, who would be the primary on the R1S, will likely never accelerate faster than 0-60 in mid 5's...it's not in her DNA at all.

**Offroading**
For the handful of times a year that i go to the local mountains it's likely going to be fire-roads or average SUV-friendly trails at most, which will already be more than 95% of the owners likely do. There is some BLM land near Joshua Tree that is a dry lakebed that I can't wait to take the R1S out on, but I actually had a ton of fun doing donuts w/ our XC90 there. I won't go to Moab, won't do anything like the trail they took for the R1T presser, but it is cool to know that if the zombie apocalypse happens that the R1T/S are incredibly off-road worthy and will leave the Lightning drivers behind to get eaten alive.

**Towing**
I don't have a boat, but I like having friends with boats. Towing isn't likely something I'll do much of, but I may eat my words if I'd ever go get a trailer of some sort. For now, however, it isn't a big differentiator, and I think they both do reasonably well.

**Handling/commute**
This is where on a day to day it won't matter (I have a boring suburban/freeway commute in OC), but when heading up to the mountains I'll really wish the Lightning took the switchbacks better. For day to doy, however, it's just not that important. to me In fact, for my day-to-day driving, I am absolutely hooked on the ride height & size of the cabin. It's just so damn comfortable. Blue Cruise works on my local freeways and the braking, even with relatively abrupt slow-downs, was really smooth. I've never had massaging seats before, and while the novelty may wear off soon I've been loving them coupled with either ventilation or heat. I should note that I almost never get to push the Polestar, and I pretty much have to go on random drives to find fun roads to let (a little) loose on. If I had a more interesting commute I know I'd feel very different.

I could go on and on w/ a few of the other categories, but I think my overall point is that the Rivian is almost excessively good, supercar-like in nature, and capable of limits that few people will push. For day-to-day it may be amazing as well, but the Lightning, w/ V2H, large frunk, big bed, and history of Ford quality (sorry but I'm not seeing anywhere close to the issues on the Lightning forum as here) makes it a compelling choice too. The Platinum isn't cheap, and probably is much less competitive $$ for $$, but the more common Lariat is a really solid truck that will appeal to a ton of buyers like me that are just regular people with regular lives.

For the true adventurer (I wish I was and hope the R1S changes some of that for me) vs. the 'aspirational adventurer' the R1T is hands down the better truck, full stop. I doubt anyone could make a reasonable argument otherwise.

Everything above almost makes me ask myself why I'm getting the R1S, to which I answer, why not replace the XC90 with something amazeballs? We don't need it over the XC90, but it sure as shit will be a blast once it comes.

That being said, if it comes down to needing to pick one over the other (R1S vs. Lightning) it may be a really tough choice.
Different trucks for different preferences. Based on your description, of the two, the Ford better suits what you're seeking from a vehicle. Your decision is certainly much easier than it was/is for many.

I struggled mightily. I preferred the overall size of the Rivian, plus it fits in my garage. But, love the benefit of the interior space available in the Ford, most notably with the amount of interior storage space within driver's reach.

If size is one of your major factors and you know what you prefer, then the decision should be much easier. Beyond that, they're different trucks for different needs and fairly easy to decide between if you know which size you prefer. If you need a bigger "truck", more interior space, then the Ford is an easy decision. If you can live with the smaller space in the Rivian, then it simply comes down to why you're buying a truck? Need it to work or serve as job site generator or backup home power is high on the list. The F-150 is the easy choice again.

If you're buying a truck and don't need a "truck" and the size isn't a factor, then the Rivian pretty much does everything else better. And can even do some standard "truck" stuff when necessary.
 

NY_Rob

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Check the numbers again, Rivian has about 50 inches between the wheel wells. Big enough to carry a typical sheet of drywall or plywood.
I think you miss-understood my post? I am aware of the 50" clearance between the wheel wells... I posted "one thing that would have instantly disqualified the R1T would have been a bed width of less than 48" between the wheel wells". But since it's greater than 48" between the wheel wells, it will easily carry 4'X8' sheets and that's why I decided to put a deposit down on an R1T back in Sept 2021.

This subject just literally came up again here this morning... we want to do a minor remodel in one area of our home that will require at least one sheet of plywood, two sheets of drywall and maybe five 8' studs. We are going to have to cram them in to our Honda Pilot (again) :(
Wish I had my truck already....
 
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MNLightning

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Just wondering what the appeal of buying a Chinese car was? I think Geely is a Chinese manufacturer that purchased Volvo first then did a joint venture with themselves between Geely and Volvo.
 

MilliM

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Just wondering what the appeal of buying a Chinese car was? I think Geely is a Chinese manufacturer that purchased Volvo first then did a joint venture with themselves between Geely and Volvo.
As I understand it, Geely did indeed purchase Volvo in 2010, effectively throwing them a lifeline when their back was against the wall after that Global Financial Crisis hit. I’m not sure they were as bad off as Saab, but they were struggling. Along with the acquisition they provided them a ton of $$ for R&D that enabled them to focus on the platforms that underpin Volvo today. Despite being owned by a Chinese company, Volvo continued to have R&D, engineering and plants in both Sweden and other parts of the world. My mom is a Swede and both she and I owned Volvos and Saabs since the 80’s.

Polestar was a stand-alone Swedish tuning firm before Volvo/Geely acquired them. The Polestar 2 is manufactured in China, and truthfully outside of some gremlins in the infotainment/TCAM it has been a great car. Feels very familiar as we came from, most recently, a V60, S90 PHEV, and the current XC90. With some familiar buttons and features it was a much easier EV transition for my wife compared to going the full software-driven interface of a M3 or MY. I’d argue there is no doubt the build quality smokes Tesla, and I doubt you find an honest reviewer that isn’t Tesla-biased stating otherwise.

Polestar is now a public company. I’m not sure how much Geely still owns, but I understand the upcoming Polestar 3 will be built in their US factory. I think I’ve also read that Volvo is trying to get out from under Geely.

To get slightly political, I’m a big Peter Zeihan fan, and I actually think China is on the way down. Geely and their suitcases full of money were the right partner at the right time, but I’d be surprised if Volvo didn’t extricate themselves from that relationship over the medium term.

EDIT: If Geely bought every available share of outstanding Rivian stock would it become a Chinese company (even if everything else remained equal)?
 

ERguy

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The F-150L looks "crudely" built. It has this under belly/frame hanging stuff, stamped steel everywhere, blah...just not for me

IMG_20220729_143323.jpg


IMG_20220729_143308.jpg
That's a pic of the $40k base model pro. Although we almost all agree the R1T and Lightning we're designed for different purposes maki g a direct comparison hard, you should at least be looking at the Lariat or Platinum if you are going to knock the Lightning.

This one looks pretty good with the running boards... A pretty basic feature not offered on the R1T.

Rivian R1T R1S 2022 Rivian R1T vs. F-150 Lightning : The Closest Finish in Motortrend History ford-f150-lightning-2022-studio-75
 
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SeaGeo

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. I've never had massaging seats before, and while the novelty may wear off soon I've been loving them coupled with either ventilation or heat.
It does not wear off. I had them in my ID.4, and even though they were very basic, I definitely miss them.

And the turning radius of that thing.

Things I never thought I would have said. I miss the turning radius and massaging seats of a car.

Just wondering what the appeal of buying a Chinese car was? I think Geely is a Chinese manufacturer that purchased Volvo first then did a joint venture with themselves between Geely and Volvo.
@MilliM answered the question well. Everything designwise is Swede. The cars are great and the P3 will be built in the U.S.

What's your concern with buying a Chinese produced car? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here that it's not driving by a xenophobic nature.
 

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Horses for courses.

I’ll take the thoroughbred, please.
 

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The thing we all need to remember is that this is an OPINION article and ultimately they gave the Ford the nod because it does "truck" things better, except towing, and is a little cheaper. We can argue whether or not this decision has to do with Ford's deep pockets and advertising dollars but ultimately it doesn't matter as it's a value judgment and for me personally I can use the exact same metrics to declare the Rivian the winner and in my use case it absolutely is.

My current daily is an Audi SQ5 but my previous 2 were full size trucks. The thing about full size trucks for me, and I believe most people who have them, is that very little time is spent doing "truck" things. I wound up having a full size each time because the mid size trucks that were available at the time are far less capable in towing and weight capacity cargo wise. So I was stuck driving a truck around that was too big 90% of the time, handled like a lumbering beast and sucked in parking lots just because when my wife wanted me to pick up plants or mulch or when I needed to tow my tractor around I had the vehicle to do so.

So when I got the Audi I decided to buy what I wanted for 90% of the use I would be doing and worry about the other 10% with rentals or borrowing family vehicles. Overall I'm happy with that decision but that 10% is a big pain in the rear end. My family is great and borrowing a truck is pretty easy for me but I still feel bad every time I need to. Enter the Rivian.

I couldn't design a truck that fit my wants more than what the Rivian is. Everything I like about my Audi the Rivian does better. It's faster, it handles as good or better, the interior is almost as good and the sound system is hopefully close. It also takes me that other 10% that my Audi does not. I can haul dirt, or plywood on the rare occasion that I have to. The fact that it tows better than the Ford negates its smaller bed. I have a 7x16' enclosed trailer that's just been sitting unless a family member borrowed it because I don't even have a vehicle to move it currently. I can fit anything I want within reason in that trailer, so if I was hauling a large load for a remodel or something I would just load it in there with the ramp door and a cart it would be easier anyhow.

So basically the things that motor trend used to declare Ford had the edge are the very things I'm using to declare it much worse than the Rivian. If you are the standard truck buyer, the guy who drives to the office M-F and tows his boat on weekends or fills it up with materials for the weekend project the Rivian is a much better vehicle. Even as a skilled trades guy, if you work commercial construction and don't have to haul the tools without a trailer and the extra power is helpful the Ford is better but honestly you're still probably better with a diesel truck.

So the Ford is the better truck for the people who THINK they need a stereotypical truck but ICE still wins out for the people who actually need that vehicle, and the Rivian is better for your standard truck buyer. They just need to be more realistic about their expectations.
 

Coast2Coast

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It's interesting nearly all of the folks on the forum who have or have had full-size trucks disagree with Motor Trend's conclusion. The Ford Lightning isn't the "better" truck even when it's doing "trucky" things. So, why did MT err so obviously?

As Andre Agassi used to say, "image is everything". MT wants to appear to be neutral and unbiased and, in doing so, it shows how biased it is. I understand why. Publications depend on advertising dollars, keyboard clicks and eyeballs.

Or maybe MT was trying to rebalance its wildly enthusiastic endorsements of the R1T a year ago. I don't believe I've ever seen so many positive stories about one vehicle in MT. But MT would have been better off ending as it began, "this comparison doesn't make sense".

I understand MT's balancing act, but I don't understand how it made a mess of things when it wasn't necessary.
 

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It's interesting nearly all of the folks on the forum who have or have had full-size trucks disagree with Motor Trend's conclusion. The Ford Lightning isn't the "better" truck even when it's doing "trucky" things. So, why did MT err so obviously?
Are we reading the same forum? I just read all of the posts and feel like majority agreed that the F150 is the better truck for doing the stuff trucks are designed for (loading up the bed and hauling large items, working, farming, plowing, etc).

Nobody that uses a truck to do truck things is suggesting a 4.5 R1T bed is more useful than an F150 with a 5.5 foot bed.

I've driven full size trucks my whole life. I absolutely do not think I could replace them with a Rivian. I've yet to see anybody use the Rivian for any legit farm/work/construction uses, and I don't even think Rivian would say they can do those tasks better than a full sized truck.

Rivian markets the R1T for adventuring... Not for trucking.
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