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ajdelange

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I am not surprised or shocked - the eMPG ratings are on a flat track under ideal conditions. Off-road, dunes, mud, steep hill climbs will destroy those ratings. Hell, with just normal city driving you will never achieve the stated specs.
These ratings are taken on a brake dynamometer with drag, rolling resistance, inertial and gravitational losses simulated through loads programmed in via the brake.
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ajdelange

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I think it's credit to Rivian for lifting the embargo and allowing Hall to write an honest review. I don't know how often this happens but it seems this is a rare chance for the public to have a peek behind the curtain of a pre-production vehicle's specs written by a legit journalist. They could have kept her from writing anything negative but didn't.
We don't really know that - do we? I think you can be sure Rivian reviewed the article before it was released. They did allow mention of the bent tie arm (or whatever it was).

As for the range issue, this may be the first time we're seeing range differences for a BEV in an off-road situation. Sand and dirt may have more of an impact than we know.
Lot's of people tend to forget that a BEV and ice vehicle are subject to exactly the same laws of physics.
 

ajdelange

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I see mention in Jeep forums of getting maybe 5 mpg in these same dunes.
Same physics.



It's hard to say if there is really a tire spin "problem" or not based on the article. With over 820 lb-ft on tap, if you wood the throttle you're going to spin the tires on any surface
Not in a properly set up vehicle with 4 separate motors. As soon as slip over 0.1 is sensed the torque to a motor should be reduced. 0.1 applies to more usual surfaces but whatever the limit there is no point in increasing torque to a wheel if it increases slip beyond the break point.

The fact that they were successfully able to climb Oldsmobile Hill says their traction control is probably dialed in fairly well.
I'm sure it is. Slipping in sand in response to a heavy foot is an area where it could evidently stand some improvement.



Regardless, this is precisely why Rivian is subjecting their vehicles to this kind of testing and I'm sure they're busy making refinements as we patiently (or impatiently) await delivery.
I am sure they are.
 

RivFly

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I thank the gals for their efforts and the great work in the Rebelle. I also thank Rivian for even allowing the whole thing to be done and for allowing the gals to talk about what's happened. This truck isn't even a "Gold Master" vehicle at this point, so much work still ahead so I'm not at all surprised by any of the info.

That things a tank and as I've kept stating, range, range, range.......people that buy trucks typically need them to do truck things, not just Mall-roving! A thing that heavy stopped off road requires a lot of juice to get going! Combine that a bunch of times and its no wonder the gals had range anxiety in the Rally!

Keep going Rivian!
 

ajdelange

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The RIT shouldn't really be thought of as a "truck". It's an "Adventure Vehicle". If you are really looking for a truck you will probably be happier with Tesla or Hummer or....
 

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ajdelange

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While 137 miles in sand dunes seems like nothing
That would be nothing but the 137 mile estimate was for "off road". Her estimate in sand dunes was 30.

[Edit] Rivian has corrected the 137 mile estimate to 167 but I am leaving this as is for the sake of the thread.

I would equate to it as being stuck in the snow for 137 miles which is a lot easier to imagine than Sand Dunes as most of us who haven't off road in the dunes.
I have never driven in "stuck in snow" conditions but I have driven in rain which easily knocked my 300 EPA X back to 200 mi. It takes a lot of energy to push stuff out of the way of a wheel.

Did I ever experience any thing like this with a petrol vehicle? Yes, of course! Did I notice it? No. Just stopped for gas sooner.
 
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IHScout

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The RIT shouldn't really be thought of as a "truck". It's an "Adventure Vehicle". If you are really looking for a truck you will probably be happier with Tesla or Hummer or....
Although it may not be to your liking, it has a bed, it tows up to 11k lbs and storage area for tools. Sounds like a truck. this may not fit everyone's needs, just like a Tacoma may not be suitable to others lifestyles over an f250. Both are still trucks.
 

electruck

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Same physics.
Thanks for that observation, Captain Obvious. :rolleyes:

Not in a properly set up vehicle with 4 separate motors. As soon as slip over 0.1 is sensed the torque to a motor should be reduced. 0.1 applies to more usual surfaces but whatever the limit there is no point in increasing torque to a wheel if it increases slip beyond the break point.
Torque isn't the only variable and there are scenarios that benefit from maintaining wheel speed for overall vehicle stability and performance (or sometimes just fun).
 

ajdelange

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WIth an electric motor there are three variables: torque, flux and speed. If you get past the break points on the slip/thrust curve you can no longer control thrust via torque. Perhaps the physics aren't so obvious to some.
 

ajdelange

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Although it may not be to your liking, it has a bed, it tows up to 11k lbs and storage area for tools. Sounds like a truck.
It has nothing to do with MY liking nor with any particular definition of what a truck is. It has to do with the demographic to which it is marketed. It's not really the "truck" market now is it? If you are looking for a "truck" the Rivian may not be the vehicle that you really want. If you are looking for a luxury vehicle in which to take your girlfriend out to your mountain cabin in comfort but still want to be able to tell your buddies you drive a "truck" then this is the "truck" for you. But if you are looking for something with which to run your lawn business or take to a job site on a daily basis it isn't. And the CT may not be either but it is closer i.e. more towing capacity and range, 240V @ 20 - 30 A in the bed, tougher finish...Thinking about it I can't decide which (Rivian or CT) would provoke more laughter at a job site.
 

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trickflow

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2) Wheel slip in sand is not under control --> torque algorithms need work.
I still wonder if it would have been a good idea (as they market it as an adventure vehicle) to have a manual locker between the motor pairs only needing software to manage front and rear speeds for some of the off road situation you may be in. I noticed the wheel slip when they released the video of them doing some light rock crawling a few months back.
 

PIXNER

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I read the article on CNET with pleasure. To me, the values given sound plausible and understandable. Very few people will probably move their R1T in a dune. So it is bearable if the car "only" manages about 150 miles in difficult terrain. For me, it would be more important to have precise information on consumption when towing a trailer. Because this will affect most of the people. And let's be honest. There is always something. No matter which car. I think the R1T and R1S are just great cars!
 

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WIth an electric motor there are three variables: torque, flux and speed. If you get past the break points on the slip/thrust curve you can no longer control thrust via torque. Perhaps the physics aren't so obvious to some.
And thrust is all that matters....
 

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We don't really know that - do we? I think you can be sure Rivian reviewed the article before it was released. They did allow mention of the bent tie arm (or whatever it was).
You're right that we (or I) don't know that for sure, but based on the interviews that Emme Hall has given in the past she seems to be a pretty straight shooter and it seems unlikely that she would let Rivian interject in her editorial process (or at least not by much). Just a hunch really, but I think a good one. On the other hand, the article didn't mention some of the other issues we know they had such as the bottoming out of the suspension on one of the whoops, causing damage to the wheel well, and/or some of the 12v electrical issues they had early on that the commentators mentioned in one of the Rebelle live videos. Perhaps she didn't mention those because in the end, as it was a prototype after all, they don't really speak to the overall quality of the vehicle.
 

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They have corrected the off road range from 137 to 167 in the article. I know it is only 30 miles but 167 sounds a lot better to me.
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