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TessP100D

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The Prius is a real car. While the glory days of the Prius are likely behind it, given the rise of fully electric vehicles, the Prius was an important gateway towards reduced emissions and increased fuel efficiency. Not only that, the Prius is a technological marvel simply because of how well it does its simple task at its price point. The Prius is at once simple and yet functions better than its rivals, none of which ever found much success in the Prius-dominated market.
;)
Ya. Ok.
prius = joke
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Autolycus

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Good luck with that.

did you happen to notice that Tesla is miles … sorry light years ahead of everybody else in the charging world. And, they just completed a factory dedicated only to building a ton more of the chargers.

EA is way behind and the problems with maintenance is well known.
They're clearly ahead of others, but how does that have any effect on Rivian's timeline? We literally know nothing about their plans to build the charging stations, so there's absolutely nothing for you to base your 7-10 year timeline on. Zilch.

For comparison, Tesla--who was having to deal with a lot of additional complications as the first mover in this area--built its first 7 supercharger sites in Q4 2012. At the end of Q4 2016, it had built 790 stations. They passed the 600 mark in Q1 2016, 14 quarters after their first site. Rivian is planning "over 600 sites". I believe it's actually ~635 points on their map right now. You're expecting Rivian to take twice as long in an environment that is MUCH easier to do this than when Tesla first started in 2012. That's just FUD, plain and simple.
 

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Good luck with that.

did you happen to notice that Tesla is miles … sorry light years ahead of everybody else in the charging world. And, they just completed a factory dedicated only to building a ton more of the chargers.

EA is way behind and the problems with maintenance is well known.
Thank you.

Yes, we have a Model 3 from launch, and very familiar with their changing efforts and accomplishments to date. Impressive.

I'm traditionally not a believer in "hope as a strategy". But... we all here, actually know nothing about Rivian's capabilities in regards to building out the RAN. So we speculate (hope) based on past successes, and what we think the future is capable of accomplishing from the efforts of companies like Tesla, EA, and Rivian.

I've not used an EA charger, only Super Chargers. So you're probably right, I'm going to be plagued with problems and charger maintenance issues while trying to get my family to Mammoth in our LE R1S. I (hope) I'm wrong, but know there is truth to what you say in regards to the EV charger build out.
 
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TessP100D

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They're clearly ahead of others, but how does that have any effect on Rivian's timeline? We literally know nothing about their plans to build the charging stations, so there's absolutely nothing for you to base your 7-10 year timeline on. Zilch.

For comparison, Tesla--who was having to deal with a lot of additional complications as the first mover in this area--built its first 7 supercharger sites in Q4 2012. At the end of Q4 2016, it had built 790 stations. They passed the 600 mark in Q1 2016, 14 quarters after their first site. Rivian is planning "over 600 sites". I believe it's actually ~635 points on their map right now. You're expecting Rivian to take twice as long in an environment that is MUCH easier to do this than when Tesla first started in 2012. That's just FUD, plain and simple.
Rivian is a start up. They have t even delivered a car yet. I would be so surprised if they have Lotsb0f issues. Building out a charging system is .. well really expensive. It will be much longer than people think. Not hard to figure that out either.
 

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Whenever I get the opportunity I chat up people I run into who drive CCS cars. A couple of days ago I met one and asked what it is like charging on the CCS network. I got pretty much the same answer I always get. Around home (Portland, ME) it is no problem but if we go afield (he was afield - west of St. Johnsbury, VT) we have to be "aware". I realized that even with the vastly superior Tesla network the Tesla driver has to be aware too (why else would I be having this conversation at a CHAdeMO charger in Danville, VT?). In fact every bit as aware as there are lots more CCS/CHAdeMO stations in Vermont than Tesla SC. In either case this necessity for awareness is going to persist until charging at at least 40 - 50 kW is as commonplace as gas pumps. Noble as Rivian;s endeavour is it is a drop in the bucket from this POV.
 
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Whenever I get the opportunity I chat up people I run into who drive CCS cars. A couple of days ago I met one and asked what it is like charging on the CCS network. I got pretty much the same answer I always get. Around home (Portland, ME) it is no problem but if we go afield (he was afield - west of St. Johnsbury, VT) we have to be "aware". I realized that even with the vastly superior Tesla network the Tesla driver has to be aware too (why else would I be having this conversation at a CHAdeMO charger in Danville, VT?). In fact every bit as aware as there are lots more CCS/CHAdeMO stations in Vermont than Tesla SC. In either case this necessity for awareness is going to persist until charging at at least 40 - 50 kW is as commonplace as gas pumps. Noble as Rivian;s endeavour is it is a drop in the bucket from this POV.

Heading up from DC area to Stowe,VT in a few weeks and taking my Hyundai and will report back with such stats. Im confident at least for my current state I won't have any issues because of how fast the car charges due to its lower capacity.
 

Autolycus

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Rivian is a start up. They have t even delivered a car yet. I would be so surprised if they have Lotsb0f issues. Building out a charging system is .. well really expensive. It will be much longer than people think. Not hard to figure that out either.
Tesla was also essentially a startup in 2012 and had just started production on their first in-house manufactured car the same year they were starting the supercharger network. Again, you're expecting Rivian to take twice as long to have a similar timeframe as Tesla did, in an environment that is much easier for Rivian. Finding possible willing locations is easier. Getting the construction and electrical permits is easier. There are more options for having OEM charging equipment manufactured. Etc. Etc. I don't think Rivian is likely to make it to 600+ stations built by the end of 2023, but suggesting it will be 7-10 years is ridiculous. In 7 years, Tesla had built > 1,800 stations with over 16,000 plugs. Rivian is aiming for 1/3 of that number of stations and <1/5 the number of plugs. In 10 years (which would be end of 2022), Tesla will have built over 3,000 stations, and probably close to 30,000 pedestals. Tesla is good, but they're not the only company capable of doing anything good.
 

ajdelange

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In the image I posted here from the configurator it states Separately that the "off road upgrade" AND the "wheels" "can affect range".
So does this mean that the off-road option will affect the MPGe plus the 20"AT wheels as well?
Yes. The tires through increased rolling resistance and the off road upgrade through the weight it adds. Each 1000 lbs you add will increase consumption by about 20 Wh/mi.
 

TessP100D

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Tesla was also essentially a startup in 2012 and had just started production on their first in-house manufactured car the same year they were starting the supercharger network. Again, you're expecting Rivian to take twice as long to have a similar timeframe as Tesla did, in an environment that is much easier for Rivian. Finding possible willing locations is easier. Getting the construction and electrical permits is easier. There are more options for having OEM charging equipment manufactured. Etc. Etc. I don't think Rivian is likely to make it to 600+ stations built by the end of 2023, but suggesting it will be 7-10 years is ridiculous. In 7 years, Tesla had built > 1,800 stations with over 16,000 plugs. Rivian is aiming for 1/3 of that number of stations and <1/5 the number of plugs. In 10 years (which would be end of 2022), Tesla will have built over 3,000 stations, and probably close to 30,000 pedestals. Tesla is good, but they're not the only company capable of doing anything good.
Ridiculous? Rivian has been planning a truck for how long? Things take time. Much longer than you think.
 

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Ridiculous? Rivian has been planning a truck for how long? Things take time. Much longer than you think.
Guy is clearly here just to troll. Can't imagine what it must be like to live life with a negative view on everything. Imagine if everyone in the world said "just because it hasn't been done before..."
 

Autolycus

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Ridiculous? Rivian has been planning a truck for how long? Things take time. Much longer than you think.
But we know exactly how long it's taken Tesla and EA to get to certain numbers, so I have a pretty good reference point that you seem dead set on throwing out entirely because [crickets].

EA built 400 stations with 1,700 plugs in under 2 years from its first station, after only a little over 1 year of planning between the company's creation and the first station being built. They've now got over 600 stations in 3 years. (4 1/2 ish total from the start of the company).

Yes, it's expensive. Yes, it takes time. But also yes, it's been done before, and Rivian's timeline is within the ballpark of at least 2 other charging networks for their build-out timeline and Rivian has a lot of cash on hand and will likely have a lot more after the IPO later this year. Rivian also isn't promising to give away any of its electrons for free like Tesla did for years. That will give them extra cash to help build out the RAN.
 

bac4uw

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Sorry for the long post, but I gave this a lot of thought over the weekend! I am going to stick with the 20s. I knew full well that there would be some mileage penalty, but it was a little disappointing to finally put a number on it. That said, I can deal with the reduction in range. The two places my family and I visit the most are 50 miles away and 150 miles away, so good on that front. I do tow a whitewater raft trailer (2-2500 pounds?) many hundreds of miles several times a year, but I was already resigned to not using the Rivian for this purpose... mainly because I don't want to deal with the complication of hiring a river shuttle company to drive my rig to the take out (not ready to lend out this awesome truck to a stranger, and I really can't be assured that I'd have a charge at the river take out... much easier to slip gas money into an envelope at this point).

A few other factors were floating around in my head this weekend that led me to be okay with the 20s. First, I've had two EVs (2013 Leaf, and now a 2018 Kia Soul) and I consistently beat the EPA range in both cars. We recently purchased the Soul as a car for our teenage son to learn on (great car!), it is rated at 111 miles and the range guess-o-meter always reads 129-130 when fully charged. Where we live in the Seattle area (moderate climate, slower driving speeds), combined with adjusting driving habits to the EV, probably helps a lot. I'm putting my optimistic hat on and believe the same will hold true for the R1T.

Secondly, I do plan to go off road and we do head up into the thick Cascade (concrete) snow regularly... the 20s should do better. Heck, some of the roads I drive on daily in Seattle would be considered light off-roading!

Given all of that, and given I'm slated for a November delivery, I don't want to risk delaying shipment for a wheel swap.
 

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I've not used an EA charger, only Super Chargers. So you're probably right, I'm going to be plagued with problems and charger maintenance issues while trying to get my family to Mammoth in our LE R1S. I (hope) I'm wrong, but know there is truth to what you say in regards to the EV charger build out.
The comment you're replying to comes from someone who doesn't use a CCS network. I've never had a major issue with EA, though I do fully acknowledge that they do need to improve their maintenance efforts. The vast majority of the time I plug my ID.4 in once and it's totally fine. When I have had issues, they tend to be of the type where the charger stopped charging partway through a charging session, and those seem to have been concentrated at two specific older EA buildouts. One of which I coincidentally drove by this weekend and saw it was in the middle of being rebuilt.

EA is getting better, and there are other networks that are in the middle of building out.

Whether Rivian gets RAN out the door in their stated timeframe (Which I don't believe, mostly due to what I expect will be supply chain issues) or not won't make or break the ability of travel with a Rivian for the most part. I do not expect the buildout to take any longer than what EA has done, which is roughly two to three years. The 7 year statement is unadulterated uninformed pessimism without anything substantive to support it other than "Rivian is a startup."

What RAN will do, when it's built out, is help provide a quality of service that won't exist on EA or the supercharger network due to network congestion that's anticipated at both over the next few years.
 

Matty J

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The comment you're replying to comes from someone who doesn't use a CCS network. I've never had a major issue with EA, though I do fully acknowledge that they do need to improve their maintenance efforts. The vast majority of the time I plug my ID.4 in once and it's totally fine. When I have had issues, they tend to be of the type where the charger stopped charging partway through a charging session, and those seem to have been concentrated at two specific older EA buildouts. One of which I coincidentally drove by this weekend and saw it was in the middle of being rebuilt.
Thanks for the real-world use case feedback... My reply contained a bit of truth, and some sarcasm. If you ask my wife and kids, my sarcasm doesn't always come across that well, especially on a forum. But, I know there will be growing pains with any new EV charger built out, RAN's included. I've had my fare share of supercharger issues over the years too, not to mention slow charging rates and broken stalls, which have improved since 2016, but still not great in many places on road trips within a couple hundred miles from home.

Regardless, even with the inevitable hiccups and growing pains, EV charging for all is much much better than it was in 2018, and will continue to improve at a rapid pace...
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