? Official EPA Range and MPGe Numbers for R1T & R1S

[McMoo]

Price for the 21" road tires is known, $383 each at TireRack, available to purchase now.

Wow, quite pricey. I may go with the 22” wheels instead. This seems to be a reasonable replacement tire for 22” when they wear out.

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tires....HR2SASP3&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

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[ajdelange]

Sorry guys. California is not .... Virginia/Quebec.

And I offer a small prayer of thanksgiving for that every day! In any case the physics are the same. But Quebec has wonderful natural resources in the form of hydro. All the electric production in the province is clean (there's a fraction of a percent that isn't) all the time.

Obviously the electricity provided to my house by SCE does not come directly from a solar panel. No one said that. In the Green Rate Program, an amount equivalent to what I use does. This is precisely the "best case" you refer to, and it is a very good case.

The pdf I linked to makes clear what the Green Rate Program does.

The only thing that pdf makes clear is that the power company has successfully bamboozled people like you into thinking you are buying green power. In fact you are buying the same power as the guy next door who doesn't subscribe to the program. What you are doing is paying a premium for some or all of your power and some of that premium is going to the companies from whom the utility buys its green power you are in effect subsidizing the production of green power and if that makes you feel good then you are getting your money's worth.

"GREEN RATE PROGRAM
We purchase renewable energy from independently owned solar farms in California on your behalf. You then purchase this renewable power (equal to 50 percent or 100 percent of your electricity use)."

https://www.sce.com/sites/default/files/custom-files/G21-047 Green Rate Residential Fact sheet_.pdf

What is not at all clear is what "purchase" means. A producer dumps kW and kVar into the grid. The electricity they sell is the number of kW a buyer pays him for. Trading of electricity is like any other commodity. It's sold on contract and on spot basis etc. It gets very complicated as sale and delivery are two different things. As I mentioned in an earlier post the producer gets a REC for each unit of energy he produces. He can sell that independently of the electricity to anyone who will buy it. While I certainly don't know the details in Calfornia I suspect that what "we purchase renewable energy from.. on your behalf..." means is "we purchase the RECs from... on your behalf." They are buying the electricity anyway.

In the end analysis, thus, I suspect that what you have in California is pretty much the same as what utilities offer in Virginia and Illinois. There is an old Russian proverb to the effect that one should not sell salt near the seashore nor charcoal in the forest. No one sells solar in Quebec.

As I write this only 13.5% of California's demand is being met by renewables. The bulk is covered by natural gas and imports. That's what you are getting and that's what you are paying a premium for (the imports may contain some renewables, of course). You are not buying any more renewable energy than anyone else. What you are buying is the right to brag about supporting renewables. And of course you can use the program to claim that you are in fact buying all renewables if you want and fool a lot of people but eventually some spoil sport will come along and expose you.

 

[Craigins]

Last night I debated replying with another attempt to explain how power grids work, but decided to go to bed.

Thanks AJ.

 

[Brian M]

I wouldn't say a lot, because now the other two motors that are off become dead weight, but hopefully the efficiency of the two motors that are in use can overcome most of that

It's hard to say. Each motor has 208hp and 225lb-ft of torque. so that should easily push it down the hwy. With only 2 motors sucking electrons, it just seems like it would be a decent improvement.

 

[WylieD]

Quebec has wonderful natural resources in the form of hydro. All the electric production in the province is clean (there's a fraction of a percent that isn't) all the time.

We wander further afield, but if you believe that hydro is entirely green and has no negative impact on the environment, then you are the one "bamboozled." I'm glad that you have back-tracked on your fantasy scenario built around California utilites buying renewable energy credits from Vermont. You now seem to understand we are talking about renewable energy generated in California and being fed into the grid.

I don't understand your apparent animosity to a utility customer voluntarily paying a premium to subsidize the added costs associated with renewable energy. And I thought I made clear the power coming through my meter could be from non-renewable sources. The point of subsidizing renewables is to change that. Yeah, I think that's a good thing.

"As I write this only 13.5% of California's demand is being met by renewables."

At 7:12 AM, of course. Are you surprised at the diurnal cycle of solar power? I pointed it out in an earlier post. If you were to check now, you would see that renewables are well over 50%. Is that perfect? Of course not. Unlike Quebec, Vermont, and the Pacific Northwest, California lacks watersheds conducive to large-scale hydropower. To be honest, if such watersheds were to miraculously appear tomorrow, my guess is that they would not be harnessed due to modern understandings of the environmental costs. In any case, the state works with what it has, mostly solar and wind. If it were up to me, nuclear would be a large part of the mix. But that battle is long lost and we are moving in the opposite direction.

"While I certainly don't know the details in Calfornia...." On this we agree.

 

[SeaGeo]

What is not at all clear is what "purchase" means. A producer dumps kW and kVar into the grid. The electricity they sell is the number of kW a buyer pays him for. Trading of electricity is like any other commodity. It's sold on contract and on spot basis etc. It gets very complicated as sale and delivery are two different things. As I mentioned in an earlier post the producer gets a REC for each unit of energy he produces. He can sell that independently of the electricity to anyone who will buy it. While I certainly don't know the details in Calfornia I suspect that what "we purchase renewable energy from.. on your behalf..." means is "we purchase the RECs from... on your behalf." They are buying the electricity anyway.

Pulling this discussion back. If the producer can only sell their "green" source at a cost greater than the other sources have it available for, they wouldn't exist. Right? So, you have have the programs in place to purchase credits of that energy. By subsidizing that green energy production, more green energy is making it into *a* grid (whether it's local to the buyer or not is immaterial here). If Nevada purchases 1GW of REC from a magical wind turbine in Vermont, that turbine (and others) have a viable reason to exist and dump wind derived power into the grid in Vermont. Right? Assuming the grid in Vermont is relatively well load balanced, then another source of energy isn't needed to produce that 1GW of electricity in Vermont. Which then results in fewer fossil fuels being used to meet the total energy demand. Right?

I don't understand your apparent animosity to a utility customer voluntarily paying a premium to subsidize the added costs associated with renewable energy. And I thought I made clear the power coming through my meter could be from non-renewable sources. The point of subsidizing renewables is to change that. Yeah, I think that's a good thing.

My specific utility in the Seattle area offers a couple of options to decide where you'd like to subsidize renewable energy sources, all of which are local. They vary from mixed sourcing including landfill gases to entirely solar options.

One of the solar options requires agreeing a yearly contract where you agree to purchase a share of a project installed and funded by the program locally. The program funds are used to install and manage local solar installations, generally on the rooftops of publicly owned buildings. The subscriber is then credited the energy generated by the share of the installation you have each month. So some months the subscriber will get a larger credit than their base share cost, and in other months (winter in Seattle, lol) it will be much smaller. In my opinion it's a neat program for people who want to fund additional solar installations but won't have the opportunity to put panels on their roof.

We're also pretty heavily dependent on natural gas in the PNW for heating homes (and cooking). Clearly not ideal, but it's nice that the utility company also provides customers the ability to purchase carbon balance credits as part of their utility bill. You can obviously do the same independently, but it's pretty convenient.

 

[Laurent]

I am not aware of any that are rated for the speed and load, and are low rolling resistance, i.e. made for a BEV truck or SUV.

I wonder if the new Pirelli Scorpion AS Plus 3 might work. It comes in 275/60R20 (33" diameter).
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=Scorpion+AS+Plus+3

 

[HokieBird7980]

Does anyone know what the percentage of reduced mileage in the R1T would be having the Tent on top of the cab versus the reduction of having the tent on the bed? I know there have been multiple test mules with the tent on top and on the bed. Would be great to know what best location to put the "parachute" as i realize that it's going to be a drag regardless, but would be nice to know if there is any difference at all.

 

[SeaGeo]

Does anyone know what the percentage of reduced mileage in the R1T would be having the Tent on top of the cab versus the reduction of having the tent on the bed? I know there have been multiple test mules with the tent on top and on the bed. Would be great to know what best location to put the "parachute" as i realize that it's going to be a drag regardless, but would be nice to know if there is any difference at all.

Not that I've seen. I'm hoping Rivian shares some more details on what to expect with their different accessories and configurations. They obviously have a bunch of data as you noted.

 

[ajdelange]

We wander further afield, but if you believe that hydro is entirely green and has no negative impact on the environment, then you are the one "bamboozled."

Ever willing to learn I ask you to unbamboozle me. But do note that I said "clean". I didn't say there was no negative impact. I very much look forward, none the less, to your revelations on what the negative impacts are. Will you mention the carbon burden imposed by the hardy Quebecoise riggers who love to smoke? Also, I will caution you in advance that we use DC transmission here!

Better also mention that solar has its environmental effects too. Just read about a project somewhere in the desert that was changing the habitat of some lizard so the company is out catching and relocating them.

I'm glad that you have back-tracked on your fantasy scenario built around California utilites buying renewable energy credits from Vermont. You now seem to understand we are talking about renewable energy generated in California and being fed into the grid.

But at the time I took the snapshot 34% of energy California was supplying to its customers was being imported from out of state. Do you know that none of it was coming from Vermont? Since you seem to need things spelled out for you the mention of Vermont was a pedagogical device intended to illustrate one facet of this elaborate scheme: that anyone, anywhere can buy RECs from anyone anywhere who is willing to sell them. And since you are so literal I had better mention specifically that the local Vermont wind farms only sell RECs in the local market (and the only sell juice to the local utilities too). Others were able to understand this.

I don't understand your apparent animosity to a utility customer voluntarily paying a premium to subsidize the added costs associated with renewable energy. And I thought I made clear the power coming through my meter could be from non-renewable sources. The point of subsidizing renewables is to change that. Yeah, I think that's a good thing.

Well again your narrow mindedness has limited your ability to grasp the broader concept but I will also point out that reading the posts would help. I laud the ends (supporting solar) but deprecate the means (deception). If you really want to support solar invest in one of the companies that runs a farm or wants to build one or put some panels on your roof. Become a doer, not a feel gooder.

At 7:12 AM, of course. Are you surprised at the diurnal cycle of solar power?

I expect, given that I start with a copy of Meeus and calculate the solar ephemeris for use in my insolation caluclations, that I have at least a rough understanding of some of the principles.

I pointed it out in an earlier post. If you were to check now, you would see that renewables are well over 50%.

I did and it's under 50%. But chez mois, at the same moment, it's 100% in Quebec and 850% in Virginia.

Unlike Quebec, Vermont, and the Pacific Northwest, California lacks watersheds conducive to large-scale hydropower. To be honest, if such watersheds were to miraculously appear tomorrow, my guess is that they would not be harnessed due to modern understandings of the environmental costs.

You all did manage to drain the Colorado River so I guess you can trash anything.

In any case, the state works with what it has, mostly solar and wind.

Quebec's blessing is hydro. California's is the sun.

If it were up to me, nuclear would be a large part of the mix. But that battle is long lost and we are moving in the opposite direction.

Blame Hyman Rickover for that. But why develop nuclear when you have all that sun?

"While I certainly don't know the details in Calfornia...." On this we agree.

Try to take off the blinders and grasp the concepts without obsessing on the details of how it's done in CA vs VA.

 

[ajdelange]

Does anyone know what the percentage of reduced mileage in the R1T would be having the Tent on top of the cab versus the reduction of having the tent on the bed? I know there have been multiple test mules with the tent on top and on the bed. Would be great to know what best location to put the "parachute" as i realize that it's going to be a drag regardless, but would be nice to know if there is any difference at all.

I don't have a number but whatever that number turns out to be you won't like it. Anything that sticks out into the air stream will increase drag. I sometimes tell people to stick their hands out the window when going 60 mph. Five pounds force on it perhaps? Dragging that a mile requires 5*5280 = 26400 ft-lbs which is about 10 Wh.

 

[Greenwater]

Price for the 21" road tires is known, $383 each at TireRack, available to purchase now. My experience driving EV, I get better than the rated mileage, so 50-60k miles is typical on OEM tires for me. That is probably 4 years before needing to replace. I want the best range possible, do not plan for off-road usage, so I am sticking with the odd-sized 21" all season road tires. However...if I knew for certain that someone other than Pirelli would produce a similar low rolling resistance properly rated (for the life of me cannot understand why Rivian didn't get Pirelli to offer this) all season tire in the 20" size, I would get the (free with LE) 20" AT tires, and just replace with the aftermarket 20" all season ones as soon as they were available, and put the AT tires away for an unforeseen off-road adventure. I know there are a lot of other tires on the market in the 20" size, but I am not aware of any that are rated for the speed and load, and are low rolling resistance, i.e. made for a BEV truck or SUV. Maybe by the time my May 2019 LE R1T preorder is ready for delivery, this year, or next year, one will be planned and/or produced. Will keep looking for now.

Thanks for actual info instead of my speculation! That's a cheaper price, less than I expected for a small run oem tire. That makes me reconsider my views. How good will those 21" tires do in the snow is my key question.

If I found the right 20" a/t tire it's $290. I think it was $800 if you order a 5th tire (including rims from Rivian). Someone else found the 22" at $256.

Just to put the links in one place I looked up:
1. https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-ww/road/pirelli-tires-tailor-made-for-rivian

2. 20" A/T $290: PIRELLI SCORPION ALL TERRAIN: THE OFF-ROAD TIRE
Pirelli’s 275/65R20 off-road tire, the Scorpion All Terrain Plus. https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...White Letters&partnum=765SR0SATPOWL&tab=Sizes

3. : 21" 275 55R21 ($383). Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season - https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...R1SVASXL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

4. 22": PIRELLI SCORPION ZERO ALL SEASON - 275/50R22 111H https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tires....HR2SASP3&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

5. Discount tire didn't like the a/t tire much on their rivian discussion https://www.discounttire.com/blog/rivian-r1t-tires

Edit: added the 22" tire, someone else found it.

 

[McMoo]

5. Discount tire didn't like the a/t tire much on their rivian discussion https://www.discounttire.com/blog/rivian-r1t-tires

The tire link they show for 20” is the standard all season pirelli scorpion ( https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/pirelli-scorpion-verde-a-s-plus ) and not the A/T tire. He even compared it to a model x tire… I don’t think the person who wrote it is knowledgeable on the actual tire offerings.

I believe this is the 22” tire but not in Rivian spec. https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=Scorpion+Zero+All+Season

 

[WylieD]

a great deal that doesn't warrant repeating.

Sorry I touched nerve. I hope things turn better for you soon.

 

[ajdelange]

Sorry I touched nerve.

No worries. This is fairly complicated stuff and it often takes multiple repetitions phrased in slightly different ways before some people "get it".

I hope things turn better for you soon.

Don't have any idea what this is referring to so I guess the only thing to say is "thanks". I hope you learned something.

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