Winter ski trip range - w/ snow tires, roof box, low temperatures etc. ?

[xyskis]

Not sure if you read Reddit but an R1T owner who just did a drive from CA to Lake Tahoe posted this range report today:

~240 in Cali weather. ~190 in winter weather with climate on.

They also posted:

Freezing temps dropped real world range by ~45 real world miles (rear and front defog almost always on, no seat heaters, and mild cabin heating).

Phantom drain was atrocious in cold weather though. Dropped by ~70 miles in 4 days.

Also bad: the truck doesn't precondition for a fast charging session. Took ~30 mins to warm the battery up enough to accept more than 20 kW - took us 2 hours to charge to 80% on EA in the cold (normally takes ~30 mins to 80% and ~1.5 hours for 100%)

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[Taycanfrank]

*edit* found the post

Someone in Chicago said 280 miles of range in 18-22 degree weather.

Neither poster put kWh/100 mi or any details beyond that on conditons, so not very useful IMHO. Anytime someone posts without the efficiency number and details it isn't reliable info.

They use the phrase "real world" a bunch but no efficiency number, no speeds driven, amount driven in a single go, temperature, elevation gain, etc..

Was it the car or the charger that caused the problem? Not enough info given to determine.

Phantom drain doesn't happen in miles, it happens in battery %. What battery % did the care lose? Or are they just going on the guess o meter?

Not saying the post isn't accurate but it's missing all of the relevant information. Any "real world test" that doesn't use battery % and kWh/100mi as the main sources of data is always flawed.

 

[stickyfingers]

Not sure if you read Reddit but an R1T owner who just did a drive from CA to Lake Tahoe posted this range report today:

~240 in Cali weather. ~190 in winter weather with climate on.

They also posted:

Freezing temps dropped real world range by ~45 real world miles (rear and front defog almost always on, no seat heaters, and mild cabin heating).

Phantom drain was atrocious in cold weather though. Dropped by ~70 miles in 4 days.

Also bad: the truck doesn't precondition for a fast charging session. Took ~30 mins to warm the battery up enough to accept more than 20 kW - took us 2 hours to charge to 80% on EA in the cold (normally takes ~30 mins to 80% and ~1.5 hours for 100%)

Those #'s are horrible. Given I'm in Canada and it's cold 4 months of the year the large pack may not be enough to do any sort of decent trip. Just thinking getting to cottage and back is 550km. Going in the winter there is no way to do that on one charge. I could plug it into a 110 while at the cabin for the 2 days but given that if it's -15c out there that may be fruitless.

 

[RideAlong]

Also , using the heater , heated seats and entertainment systems combined with those conditions mention will impact range significantly as well

 

[yizzung]

Not sure if you read Reddit but an R1T owner who just did a drive from CA to Lake Tahoe posted this range report today:

~240 in Cali weather. ~190 in winter weather with climate on.

They also posted:

Freezing temps dropped real world range by ~45 real world miles (rear and front defog almost always on, no seat heaters, and mild cabin heating).

Phantom drain was atrocious in cold weather though. Dropped by ~70 miles in 4 days.

Also bad: the truck doesn't precondition for a fast charging session. Took ~30 mins to warm the battery up enough to accept more than 20 kW - took us 2 hours to charge to 80% on EA in the cold (normally takes ~30 mins to 80% and ~1.5 hours for 100%)

Worth noting that we’ve had record breaking weather over the last week plus. 100 inches of snow in Tahoe, 40-ish degrees in San Francisco (insanely cold, for us), snow closures on HWY 50 as far south as Placerville, and both major HWYs completely closed in both directions for significant periods of time. My buddy spent 14 hours in an ICE heading up yesterday (180 mile trip). Roads were pretty clear today but curious to know more about this drive.

Unless you’re driving to Aspen or Telluride, the mountains are fortunately much closer to Denver…

 

[yizzung]

Worth noting that we’ve had record breaking weather over the last week plus. 100 inches of snow in Tahoe, 40-ish degrees in San Francisco (insanely cold, for us), snow closures on HWY 50 as far south as Placerville, and both major HWYs completely closed in both directions for significant periods of time. My buddy spent 14 hours in an ICE heading up yesterday (180 mile trip). Roads were pretty clear today but curious to know more about this drive.

Unless you’re driving to Aspen or Telluride, the mountains are fortunately much closer to Denver…

Well if they are posting today and citing a 4-day phantom drain then that tells me all I need to know. They drove up through one of the most historic blizzards on record. 16 feet of Tahoe snow in December which shattered a 51-year record. Probably should be an advert for Rivian…

 

[kylealden]

What would you all expect? This feels like a losing proposition but I'm really unenthused about the added cost and weight (not to mention delay) of a max pack. Thanks!

I have done extensive driving in both a Model 3 and Model Y with a roof box and winter tires, including multiple 1000+ mile ski road trips. I plan on 30% efficiency loss (combined across climb/descent/cityunder these conditions as a rule of thumb. My average winter wh/mi is around 330, compared to more like 260 in the summer.

A few notes:

• You can mitigate the battery impacts by preconditioning your car while it’s connected to power.
• The roof box has very little impact below ~50mph and truly enormous impact above ~70mph. In my experience a roof box is noticeably more efficient than a ski rack.
• Snow tires are probably only about a 5% loss versus an all season on the same wheel. Wheels matter more.
• You’re going to see a lot more “phantom” drain (battery maintenance) while cold soaking. If you’re staying somewhere very cold for multiple days, factor in a 5-10% daily loss. I’ve had days where my Model 3 barely gained any power when plugged into 110v power outdoors overnight because it was using all the power just to maintain the pack.

 

[bsaik]

I have done extensive driving in both a Model 3 and Model Y with a roof box and winter tires, including multiple 1000+ mile ski road trips. I plan on 30% efficiency loss (combined across climb/descent/cityunder these conditions as a rule of thumb. My average winter wh/mi is around 330, compared to more like 260 in the summer.

A few notes:

• You can mitigate the battery impacts by preconditioning your car while it’s connected to power.
• The roof box has very little impact below ~50mph and truly enormous impact above ~70mph. In my experience a roof box is noticeably more efficient than a ski rack.
• Snow tires are probably only about a 5% loss versus an all season on the same wheel. Wheels matter more.
• You’re going to see a lot more “phantom” drain (battery maintenance) while cold soaking. If you’re staying somewhere very cold for multiple days, factor in a 5-10% daily loss. I’ve had days where my Model 3 barely gained any power when plugged into 110v power outdoors overnight because it was using all the power just to maintain the pack.

I’m a model Y owner in Nor Cal and this matches my experience on multiple trips to Tahoe and over 88, down 395 to Mammoth Lakes. The most important things for me on these trips has been the availability of Tesla supercharges near my destination and the battery preheating for fast recharging.

Destination supercharging or fast DC charging is key to solving the issue of available spots on the chargers. You don’t have the issue of a car blocking the charging spot for 12 hours or more. If I’m there for a day or two, I can at least have multiple opportunities at topping off the charge. If the chargers have a long line (which rarely happens actually), I just come back later.

The ability to charge the model Y from ~20% charge up to 80% in 20 minutes is key. It makes It no big deal to plan a stop on the way to top-off. The most concerning thing I see on the Reddit trip report is the lack of battery preconditioning for fast charging. That really is a game changer on the trip planning. I hope that’s something that changes in the near term with software!

 

[Dark-Fx]

I’m a model Y owner in Nor Cal and this matches my experience on multiple trips to Tahoe and over 88, down 395 to Mammoth Lakes. The most important things for me on these trips has been the availability of Tesla supercharges near my destination and the battery preheating for fast recharging.

Destination supercharging or fast DC charging is key to solving the issue of available spots on the chargers. You don’t have the issue of a car blocking the charging spot for 12 hours or more. If I’m there for a day or two, I can at least have multiple opportunities at topping off the charge. If the chargers have a long line (which rarely happens actually), I just come back later.

The ability to charge the model Y from ~20% charge up to 80% in 20 minutes is key. It makes It no big deal to plan a stop on the way to top-off. The most concerning thing I see on the Reddit trip report is the lack of battery preconditioning for fast charging. That really is a game changer on the trip planning. I hope that’s something that changes in the near term with software!

I'd be willing to guess that Rivian does preconditioning like my Polestar 2 does. You have to route to the charger to make the system prepare. There's no direct way of doing it and you aren't even told if it is working either.

 

[SeaGeo]

I'd be willing to guess that Rivian does preconditioning like my Polestar 2 does. You have to route to the charger to make the system prepare. There's no direct way of doing it and you aren't even told if it is working either.

Manufacturers really need to make battery temps visible to the driver. So many ID.4 owners blaming EA for slow charging over the last week or two when in reality they just had cold batteries.

 

[Taycanfrank]

Hopefully we get some more precise details. Obviously if the Rivian can't make a 180-200 mi round ski trip without charging it'll rule it out for a lot of people. That's a pretty basic goal.

 

[ColoradoRivian]

I have done extensive driving in both a Model 3 and Model Y with a roof box and winter tires, including multiple 1000+ mile ski road trips. I plan on 30% efficiency loss (combined across climb/descent/cityunder these conditions as a rule of thumb. My average winter wh/mi is around 330, compared to more like 260 in the summer.

<snip>

This is exactly what I needed, thank you Kyle. I am glad to hear snow tires don't reduce range by too much. You said wheels do. Is that just the size (diameter, width) and weight, or also the spoke design? I haven't seen aftermarket EV wheels hyping efficiency, but I haven't really looked.

Thank you!

 

[Joe schmoe]

Based on my experience with a Model S (7 years now) using resistance heat for the cabin will be a definite hit, heated seats much less, and thing like the entertainment system, lights, etc are trivially small and can be ignored.

A much bigger potential factor is increased rolling resistance from heavy rain or deep snow.

Also , using the heater , heated seats and entertainment systems combined with those conditions mention will impact range significantly as well

 

[xyskis]

Based on my experience with a Model S (7 years now) using resistance heat for the cabin will be a definite hit, heated seats much less, and thing like the entertainment system, lights, etc are trivially small and can be ignored.

A much bigger potential factor is increased rolling resistance from heavy rain or deep snow.

I experienced this today. deep slushy snow for middle third of the trip and deep drier snow for the last third. Averaging 40-75 mph and 388 wh/mile on the way down… no box/etc, aero tires on… this is why I personally wouldn’t be willing to do the R1S without a longer range pack.

 

[kylealden]

This is exactly what I needed, thank you Kyle. I am glad to hear snow tires don't reduce range by too much. You said wheels do. Is that just the size (diameter, width) and weight, or also the spoke design? I haven't seen aftermarket EV wheels hyping efficiency, but I haven't really looked.

Thank you!

In general I think the diameter (and more direclty, weight) matters more than design, but design is a factor. I recall the Tesla community found that the Model 3 aero covers made a 2-3% efficiency improvement over the same wheel with no cover. But weight makes a big difference.

I'd go as far as to say the 21s with a winter tire will be considerably more efficient that the 20s with the off-the-shelf ATs. But the 20" ATs are three-peaks snow rated so if you're OK with the range hit, you can plan for Rivian's stated range hit there.

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