Sponsored

DuoRivians

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Threads
189
Messages
2,784
Reaction score
6,511
Location
California
Vehicles
R1T, MY
What is not mentioned by Rivian is if there's a Conserve Mode on the dual motor configurations. If they decide not to have that mechanical disconnect on the output shaft of the motors for the dual motor configuration then the difference in range between max and large packs is very small when you are in conserve mode on quad motors.
I think there would be a conserve mode. If anything, it'd be simpler to execute
Sponsored

 

the long way downunder

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adam
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
934
Reaction score
985
Location
charging
Vehicles
Tesla
Occupation
WFH
Waited two years to discover that max pack adds 35 miles of range. Rivian sucks.
The Max Pack was meant to be 185kWh, Large being 135kWh.
Available capacity has increased a few percent and range has increased, but in terms of expectations initially, range was 314 miles.
The Max Pack expectation math is 185 / 135 * 314 = 430 miles.
The '23 EPA range of a quad large R1T is 328 miles.
Arguably, anything less than 185 / 135 * 328 = 450 miles is disappointing.
The other issues would be better thermal management ā€“ a heat pump ā€“ and (far) better charging curve at 800 volts, but apparently Max Pack is still 400V (but I haven't seen anything from Rivian on the tech specs.)
Personally, I ordered an R1S quad Max, which was promised "at launch" and I imagine quite a few people have the same pre-order, and the same expectation.
 

theyoungone

Well-Known Member
First Name
Isaiah
Joined
Nov 1, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
223
Reaction score
458
Location
Madison, AL
Vehicles
RAV4 Hybrid
Occupation
Engineer
Honestly the 20s having less range arenā€™t even that big of a deal. Slap some all seasons on and youā€™ll get the same if not slightly better range the the 21s. My biggest ā€œgripeā€ (again I get it, if I canā€™t buy it/donā€™t want to, just donā€™t) is that a Dual-Enhanced Large R1S w/21s is only a TWO GRAND difference over the Quad-Large for 20-30 miles of range. Okay cool. But that max, being 10K more for only 50-60 miles? Thatā€™s insane. It almost begs the buyer to go Quad-Large.

which may be what I do. i was planning on going Dual-Enhanced, Large with my R1S until the Max was announced. Itā€™s not even about specs, performance, or what was promised. I can stomach 80-90K for a vehicle. But man, when Iā€™m looking at 106K for a

Glacier White
Dual Motor-nhanced
Max Pack
Off-Road Upgrade

itā€™s starting to make my head spin AND make me wonder if i should commit (again I know itā€™s my money. Just voicing thoughts.) But
 

DuoRivians

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Threads
189
Messages
2,784
Reaction score
6,511
Location
California
Vehicles
R1T, MY
Honestly the 20s having less range arenā€™t even that big of a deal. Slap some all seasons on and youā€™ll get the same if not slightly better range the the 21s. My biggest ā€œgripeā€ (again I get it, if I canā€™t buy it/donā€™t want to, just donā€™t) is that a Dual-Enhanced Large R1S w/21s is only a TWO GRAND difference over the Quad-Large for 20-30 miles of range. Okay cool. But that max, being 10K more for only 50-60 miles? Thatā€™s insane. It almost begs the buyer to go Quad-Large.

which may be what I do. i was planning on going Dual-Enhanced, Large with my R1S until the Max was announced. Itā€™s not even about specs, performance, or what was promised. I can stomach 80-90K for a vehicle. But man, when Iā€™m looking at 106K for a

Glacier White
Dual Motor-nhanced
Max Pack
Off-Road Upgrade

itā€™s starting to make my head spin AND make me wonder if i should commit (again I know itā€™s my money. Just voicing thoughts.) But
I think the answer is that the max pack will likely be purchased most commonly with 21s or 22s, not the 20s. Thus, max pack buyers likely wonā€™t buy the off-road package too.
 

theyoungone

Well-Known Member
First Name
Isaiah
Joined
Nov 1, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
223
Reaction score
458
Location
Madison, AL
Vehicles
RAV4 Hybrid
Occupation
Engineer
I think the answer is that the max pack will likely be purchased most commonly with 21s or 22s, not the 20s.
Do people like the 21s enough for any reason other than range? šŸ˜‚. Iā€™m just curious. Because when I found out I could do a tire swap for the same range I said screw that. Wonder if there would be a big enough market to sell my 21s as full size spares.
 

Sponsored

DuoRivians

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Threads
189
Messages
2,784
Reaction score
6,511
Location
California
Vehicles
R1T, MY
Do people like the 21s enough for any reason other than range? šŸ˜‚. Iā€™m just curious. Because when I found out I could do a tire swap for the same range I said screw that. Wonder if there would be a big enough market to sell my 21s as full size spares.
Much better ride and comfort on street than the 20s. If one is planning on no off-roading, thereā€™s no need for 20s. Of course 21s are cheaper too
 

Mathme

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Jul 25, 2022
Threads
2
Messages
649
Reaction score
774
Location
Los Altos, CA
Vehicles
R1T: El Cap, OC, 20AT, Off road package
Occupation
High Tech
Interesting. I'm a post-March deposit person, and since being invited to the configurator about a month ago, I've ONLY been able to go the 20" route by doing the "All Terrain Upgrade" for $3850.

The configurator has changed overnight to identify the the new drive systems and battery packs overnight however, when selecting the Max Pack, I get an error saying not available with selected drive system. When selecting a Dual-Moror system, I get the "Available mid-year" blah-blah-blah. You'd think Rivian would allow anyone with configurator access to select these new options so they can plan out their 2023 build schedule better.

Here's screen shots of the configurator this morning...

Rivian R1T R1S R1T Max Pack + Dual Motor range update from Rivian: 335, 360 and 400 miles range Screenshot 2023-04-06 at 7.56.29 AM


Rivian R1T R1S R1T Max Pack + Dual Motor range update from Rivian: 335, 360 and 400 miles range Screenshot 2023-04-06 at 7.56.39 AM
 

theyoungone

Well-Known Member
First Name
Isaiah
Joined
Nov 1, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
223
Reaction score
458
Location
Madison, AL
Vehicles
RAV4 Hybrid
Occupation
Engineer
Much better ride and comfort on street than the 20s. If one is planning on no off-roading, thereā€™s no need for 20s. Of course 21s are cheaper too
I may just be purchasing 21s then, buying the 20s from the gear shop, and selling the 21s as full size spares to anyone that wants one I guess.
 

SDH

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2022
Threads
8
Messages
514
Reaction score
916
Location
CA
Vehicles
R1T LE; Jeep Rubicon
Much better ride and comfort on street than the 20s. If one is planning on no off-roading, thereā€™s no need for 20s. Of course 21s are cheaper too
More comfortable? Really? I have A/T tyres on my Jeep and R1T, not because I go hard-core off roading but because they look way better (IMO) and are handy when the snow falls. They are very comfortable on road - less worry about kerbing those expensive alloys too.

Would buy AT's all day - range is not an issue for me. If it was, I'd be driving a Tesla or Lucid (or another ICE car)
 

NY_Rob

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Feb 9, 2022
Threads
18
Messages
3,664
Reaction score
5,066
Location
long island
Vehicles
2021 Model 3 LR AWD, 2017 BMW i3 REX, 2023 R1T
Occupation
IT
There are regular indications of a thermal design problem in existing packs. The time to improve that issue would be when the pack would be with whatever changes are needed for max pack.
Unfortunately, Rivian is cooling limited by the original pack design they chose years ago. You can only draw so much heat from a cell when contacting only the top and bottom ends of the cell.
Rivian R1T R1S R1T Max Pack + Dual Motor range update from Rivian: 335, 360 and 400 miles range 1680793559910

Rivian R1T R1S R1T Max Pack + Dual Motor range update from Rivian: 335, 360 and 400 miles range 1680793776045




Tesla has a far superior cooling design that provides way more surface area contact for removing heat from individual cells because they contact the long sides of the cells vs. just the top and bottom ends as in the Rivian pack design.
Rivian R1T R1S R1T Max Pack + Dual Motor range update from Rivian: 335, 360 and 400 miles range 1680793581399
 

Sponsored

DaveA

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Threads
12
Messages
1,897
Reaction score
3,348
Location
Texas
Vehicles
Rivian R1T
I will gladly pay more for a post-March, non-tick/tocking, drivetrain lash-free motor variant....waiting patiently for a dual motor review.
 

ironpig

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Threads
7
Messages
1,960
Reaction score
3,343
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Vehicles
2022 R1T LE, 2015 4Runner, 1975 FJ55 Land Cruiser
Although the current max pack range numbers are a little lower than hoped, I suspect the real world range might be higher. It's hard to know how much optimization will. happen with the new motors. But there is only so much room for extra batteries on these current designs.

If you want real range - look at what RAM has had to do to deliver it: A 229 kWh battery pack for 500 mile range! That's a BIG BATTERY. (and why I reserved one in case our horse towing needs outgrow our Rivian)

https://jalopnik.com/2024-ram-1500-rev-electric-pickup-hp-tq-towing-range-1850295482
 

SeaGeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brice
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Threads
47
Messages
5,237
Reaction score
9,677
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
Xc60 T8
Occupation
Engineer
It looks weird on the updated configurator that the Quad Motor is $1000 less than the Performance Dual, since the former is marketed as: "our most capable system. It features one motor for each wheel for the highest levels of performance, capability and control both on-road and off."

It's like pay $1000 more for about 20 miles more range but less horsepower, slower acceleration, and less off-road capability. You also get the option to buy a bigger battery with more weight and possibly less payload capacity, but up to 72 miles of additional range for another $7000.
Yeah, that threw me for a loop too. They split the pricing scheme between the max pack upgrade and the dual motor variant. My guess is they're trying to discourage some behavior without outright disallowing it.
Max Pack should mean similar charge rate for the first half of the pack, but potentially less thermal throttling than Large pack since you're spreading the heat out into more cells. Should mean a slightly higher charge curve (15-20%ish?) for the rest of the pack. It definitely will still have an advantage in a 400V system.
I'm still of the opinion that it's a chemistry change with the same number of modules and the same or fewer number of actual cells. Just a hunch based on having the same pack in the R1S max as well.

Unfortunately, Rivian is cooling limited by the original pack design they chose years ago. You can only draw so much heat from a cell when contacting only the top and bottom ends of the cell.
1680793559910.png

1680793776045.png




Tesla has a far superior cooling design that provides way more surface area contact for removing heat from individual cells because they contact the long sides of the cells vs. just the top and bottom ends as in the Rivian pack design.
1680793581399.png
Lucid would disagree with you, at least in terms of efficiency of removing temps.

I'm not thrilled with they way they're managing thermals so far, but they're also not actually trying to cool the cells very much for most of the DCFC charging sessions generally. Running cooling between the cells also results in lower pack density. Give and take.
 

rbr19870445

Well-Known Member
First Name
J
Joined
Apr 6, 2023
Threads
6
Messages
120
Reaction score
194
Location
Charlotte
Vehicles
R1T, 981 GT4, 3rd gen 4runner, 1st gen JDM CRV
Clubs
 
Although the current max pack range numbers are a little lower than hoped, I suspect the real world range might be higher. It's hard to know how much optimization will. happen with the new motors. But there is only so much room for extra batteries on these current designs.

If you want real range - look at what RAM has had to do to deliver it: A 229 kWh battery pack for 500 mile range! That's a BIG BATTERY. (and why I reserved one in case our horse towing needs outgrow our Rivian)

https://jalopnik.com/2024-ram-1500-rev-electric-pickup-hp-tq-towing-range-1850295482
The Ram battery just seems absurd. I can't stand Stellantis. Didn't the CEO, up until a year ago, say they essentially weren't interested in EVs?
 

NY_Rob

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Feb 9, 2022
Threads
18
Messages
3,664
Reaction score
5,066
Location
long island
Vehicles
2021 Model 3 LR AWD, 2017 BMW i3 REX, 2023 R1T
Occupation
IT
Lucid would disagree with you, at least in terms of efficiency of removing temps.

I'm not thrilled with they way they're managing thermals so far, but they're also not actually trying to cool the cells very much for most of the DCFC charging sessions generally. Running cooling between the cells also results in lower pack density. Give and take.
Let's see how long their cells last... Tesla has a proven design and estimate their packs could last for up to 1,000,000 miles using their current build strategy.

Rivian is being cautious with their charging temps because their design takes a long time to cool down the cells if they heat up due to limited cooling plate surface contact area with individual cells.

I've never seen the Lucid pack design, but if it's similar to Rivian's and they are letting the cells heat up.. they may regret it in the long (as in battery warranty period) run.
Sponsored

 
 




Top