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ajdelange

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Not true.
Of course it is true. The fact that some are not able to interpret consumption numbers (Wh/mi or MPGe) doesn't mean they don't contain useful information. Many of us know how to use that information. Guess one has to be a nerd.
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ajdelange

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I'm just reading an article about Lucid. Will thay announce a merger with CCIV on Monday? I hope so but the reason for bringing this up here is that the article lists some of the claims about Lucid's charging speed in particular that it can take on 300 miles of charge in 20 minutes at a 350 kW charger. So let's estimate charging time based on what we know about the car to illustrate how to use consumption to do so. We know the Lucid has some pretty impressive aero and drive train features at least according to Mr. Rawlinson. So lets WAG 250 Wh/mi for the consumption. We know that it has 800 V architecture and can thus probably take the full 350 kW from an HPC350 compliant charger. We assume, based on our experience with Tesla, that in a typical charging session the car will take 80% of this. The charging rate is then simply 0.8*350/.250 = 1120 mph. The time to add 300 miles would then be 60*300/1120 = 16.07 minutes. That's pretty close to the 20 minutes claimed. As an "engineering approximation" it is pretty good. At this point engineering approximations, based on engineering principles and the estimator's experience, are all we have to compare to the OEMs claims. When we get and drive the car (that won't be me - much too dear) we will have much better estimates of the actual Wh/mi and fraction of charger label capacity it draws and, thus, be able to calculate charging time more accurately (if we want to i.e. if we are nerdy enough).

[Edit] If you want to use MPGe convert it to Wh/mi by dividing 33700 by the MPGe e.g. 10 MPGe = 3370 Wh/mi. 100 MPGe = 337 Wh/mi.
 
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skyote

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Will thay announce a merger with CCIV on Monday? I hope so
Me too! I do very little speculative investing, so I'm really pulling for that announcement. Friday afternoon's run was impressive, & I'm curious to see what happens if/when the official announcement comes.
 

DucRider

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Of course it is true. The fact that some are not able to interpret consumption numbers (Wh/mi or MPGe) doesn't mean they don't contain useful information. Many of us know how to use that information. Guess one has to be a nerd.
I never said that consumption did not contain useful information - I'm challenging your assertion that MPGe is directly proportional to miles per minute when charging and people can tell which will charge faster on a road trip by looking at that number. If that was the case, the Bolt would gain miles faster than the Taycan, etc. You simply cannot tell which vehicle will charge faster by looking at MPGe (or Wh/mii or mi/kWh).

This would be the case only if all other variable are equal - which they are not. Which is why when I gave you two imaginary vehicles and their MPGe numbers, you were unable to identify which would charge faster.
 

ajdelange

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I never said that consumption did not contain useful information - I'm challenging your assertion that MPGe is directly proportional to miles per minute when charging and people can tell which will charge faster on a road trip by looking at that number.
I don't understand why you persistently insist that I can't do what I just did in No. 77. Please read that post and try to follow how it is done. Identify for me the part(s) of that post where you think the error(s) lie.

This would be the case only if all other variable are equal - which they are not.
Again my only comment is "well duh". What can I say beyond that? I will, however, ask again whether you are familiar with the meaning of ceteris paribus.

Which is why when I gave you two imaginary vehicles and their MPGe numbers, you were unable to identify which would charge faster.
How could I possibly do it if I didn't know anything about the cars and chargers and indeed the consumptions? The formula requires values for three parameters. I keep saying, and you keep ignoring, the fact that we need a number for each. My ability to estimate the charging time of the Lucid is based on my ability to estimate these numbers based on what I know about the car, the available chargers and an assumed set of driving conditions. And come up with a pretty good estimate. You think I can't do this but I just keep doing it. If you could get past whatever mental block it is that is plagueing you you could too. I suspect that in truth you don't want to understand. OK. Why don't we just accept that you can't do it but the rest of us can. There is no way you will be able to convince those of us that estimate charging times from consumption that we cannot do what we do.
 
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DucRider

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How could I possibly do it if I didn't know anything about the cars and chargers and indeed the consumptions? The formula requires values for three parameters. I keep saying, and you keep ignoring, the fact that we need a number for each.
You have repeatedly made statements that you could tell relative charge speed by looking only at MPGe. Even you contradict yourself on that point, and I just want to make sure new users don't try and use MPGe as a basis for how fast a car will charge.
 

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Just man-splain it to us AJ.
 

ajdelange

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You have repeatedly made statements that you could tell relative charge speed by looking only at MPGe. Even you contradict yourself on that point, and I just want to make sure new users don't try and use MPGe as a basis for how fast a car will charge.
Actually, I just went over the whole thread and I can't find a single place where I said that let alone repeatedly so I'll have to ask you to point them out to me. If you do I will fix them to be consistent with No. 77 and the other posts.

The new users who are interested can look at No. 77 and see how to use MPGe as a basis for estimating charging rate. I asked you to tell me which parts of No 77 you found to be in error and you didn't respond so I assume that you are on board with that post. If we can agree that there is nothing wrong with No. 77 then I can just go back and fix the posts that conflict with it and you should be happy.
 
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DucRider

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Actually, I just went over the whole thread and I can't find a single place where I said that let alone repeatedly so I'll have to ask you to point them out to me. If you do I will fix them to be consistent with No. 77 and the other posts.
One example:
More to the point here is that someone comparing the Telsa models to each other or the Rivian models to each other or the Rivian models to the Teslas can get a pretty good idea as to what relative charging times will be on a road trip. They will be directly proportional to the Wh/mi and, thus, inversely proportional to the MPGe.
 

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ajdelange

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I sort of assumed that anyone reading this in the context would recognize that ceteris paribus is implied since there wouldn't be much point in comparing a Telsa charging on a V2 to a Rivian charging on a HPC350. If I added "ceteris paribus" would that make you happy? I agree that given that I am aware that some (most) of the readers here are lay people I should have done that. And I did it.

Next?
 
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AJ, take a damn chill pill dude!
 

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ajdelange

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Gotcha. Well I must say this experience has been similar to many attempts to explain technical things to Mrs. D.
 

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People would probably be more willing to actually listen to you if every word you typed wasn’t absolutely dripping with condescension and “holier-than-thou” attitude.

Just because most of us didn’t go into engineering or whatever doesn’t make us less intelligent than you.

So maybe learn some people skills. It’ll go a long way for you I think
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