RAP1/lidar still on track for this year

[Mos Eisley]

The description in the Autonomy+ pop-up, which is on all the trims not just Performance/LE, says otherwise.

You’ll note that only the launch package has the superscript #3 that, down below, says autonomy stays with the vehicle. That clause isn’t there with the other trims.

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[emroch]

You’ll note that only the launch package has the superscript #3 that, down below, says autonomy stays with the vehicle. That clause isn’t there with the other trims.

Nope. I see the same footnote #3 on each trim's config page. And if you click the (i) button on the Autonomy+ upgrade option, footnote #4 says the same thing. And on the Autonomy page, footnote #5 says it too:

5. 60-day Autonomy+ trial included with delivery of new R1 and R2 vehicles. One-time purchase upgrade product features remain available during the lifetime of feature support for the hardware on the vehicle at delivery. One-time purchase upgrades remain with the vehicle upon ownership transfer.

In fact, I don't see the term "lifetime" mentioned anywhere other than these footnotes. All of the purchase language says "one-time" or "included with Launch Edition" and the footnotes all agree that "one-time" applies for the "lifetime" and are transferrable.

Following Dana's lead, I'll leave it at that. No more back-and-forth necessary. If you have proof that the trims have different terms or that one-time and lifetime are not interchangeable, then I'd be happy to see it, but as it stands I'll continue to believe that they are.

 

[Elevert]

The liability and lawsuits that would exist in the event that Rivian allows launch editions with rap one and LiDAR would be so significant that it would bankrupt the company. I see in no way shape or form that they’re gonna repeat the past problems that they have like the class action going on with the current GEN one models with the R2

What liability? Rivian announced the new chip and sensors 6 months prior to allowing anyone to order. They’ve also never said it’s Launch Edition or LiDAR. People just assume that. Rivian also allowed R1 preorders to use vouchers on Gen 2 vehicles for a short period of time before the cutoff. That is no different than allowing people that preordered the car and wanted to wait for the most updated version that was announced prior to release to still get a launch edition.

Rivian even sent out an email stating “For a limited time, every R2 includes Launch Package.” Sure only the performance is on sale at the moment, but that email states no where that it is performance only or gen 2.5 only. In fact the fine print even goes on to state that the autonomy + features vary based on vehicle model and hardware.

I can see arguments for both ways, but I think launch package will be available as an option for people with preorders for probably a year or so and I think they announce when it is coming to an end to try and have one more sales push. I could see someone ordering an R2 from the shop without a preorder not getting it during that timeframe though. That is just my speculation based on their careful wording. It would be easy to confirm what people are assuming but they haven’t.

 

[JetSpeed]

I’d be… honestly… shocked. Because this creates that whole rat’s nest of…. Do I order in October and not get it or??? They’ll need to clarify how this is going to work quickly.

Yep. With an estimated order invite of Nov/Dec this will definitely be a factor. Like many I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

 

[a9967]

I look at it this way: until rivian assumes 100% liability when autonomy+ is active, and the courts agree with the idea (and have a proven case record) that I have zero responsibility when autonomy+ is active, I'm not taking my eyes off the road anyway.

How would that even work? Would I have to add "Rivian" as a driver on my insurance?

We are looking at many years before the dust settled on this, by which time RAP2 (or 3?) and lidar 2 and some new sensor that's not even on the roadmap yet will probably be required for real L4 autonomy.

Never buy a car based on what it might do in the future. It'll just make you hem and haw forever, waiting for the next thing on the horizon.

 

[Mos Eisley]

Nope. I see the same footnote #3 on each trim's config page. And if you click the (i) button on the Autonomy+ upgrade option, footnote #4 says the same thing. And on the Autonomy page, footnote #5 says it too:


In fact, I don't see the term "lifetime" mentioned anywhere other than these footnotes. All of the purchase language says "one-time" or "included with Launch Edition" and the footnotes all agree that "one-time" applies for the "lifetime" and are transferrable.

Following Dana's lead, I'll leave it at that. No more back-and-forth necessary. If you have proof that the trims have different terms or that one-time and lifetime are not interchangeable, then I'd be happy to see it, but as it stands I'll continue to believe that they are.

Browsing via desktop, for LE it shows:

For the other two trims it's different. No (3) clause.

The clauses are at the bottom of the page are visible regardless of trim

but clause (3) is only attached to the LE Autonomy + description.

On the info page, I see what you are saying about#4 - but there's a not-too-clear out for them there:

"Available features vary by vehicle" Autonomy+ product features remain available during the lifetime of feature support for the hardware on the vehicle at delivery. Autonomy+ upgrade will remain with the vehicle upon ownership transfer."

Who knows if what they are saying there is -IF- you bought the LE with the feature of transferability... then you get it but nobody else, dunno. But I've worked with contracts long enough to know they could easily mean that here. There are plenty of other discrepancies and contradictions in terms and language across various Rivian web pages and documents.

 

[CharonPDX]

One key caveat - the RAP1 hardware itself may be ready by end of this year, that doesn't mean it will be in shipping vehicles in 2026. It could just mean that it is "ready to enter mass production," which will have its own ramp-up time.

If it is 2026? Great, surprise bonus for buyers with late 2026 delivery dates. But I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm still expecting that non-Launch Edition won't start shipping until early 2027, and RAP1 will be a part of that.

 

[AuntRivian]

One key caveat - the RAP1 hardware itself may be ready by end of this year, that doesn't mean it will be in shipping vehicles in 2026. It could just mean that it is "ready to enter mass production," which will have its own ramp-up time.

If it is 2026? Great, surprise bonus for buyers with late 2026 delivery dates. But I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm still expecting that non-Launch Edition won't start shipping until early 2027, and RAP1 will be a part of that.

The quote from the earnings call today (first post of this thread) literally says they are targeting "launch" for Gen 3 hardware by the end of this year. Launch means they ship it to customers.

As for all the ruckus about LE vs Gen 3 models, it's simple... LE's will be Gen 2.5 hardware and include lifetime Autonomy +, Gen 3 will not be LE and you'll pay for autonomy either monthly or at purchase.

 

[Dennisis]

Have to see how it all plays out but I was told 1) LE includes life autonomy plus and 2) If LE isn’t available when I order in the Nov/Dec timeframe then 2) I can still get it but have to pay monthly or $2500 one time for a lifetime purchase. The only difference is if it’s included for free in the LE package or if you buy it as an add on, still get the same product. This makes sense to me.

 

[R2 Fan]

regardless, this still drops a major hardware and software change in the middle of a model year. Where/when do they draw that line? And if I’m getting Autonomy free for the life of the vehicle… might as well wait for RAP1. This has the potential to be a cluster.

My guess is that RAP 1/Lidar will no longer be considered "Launch Edition" (it's the second edition, or version 2, what ever you want to call it. It is not the Launch Edition). They will be able to keep the price of the RAP1/Lidar at, or close to the current price by dropping the Launch Edition perks.

 

[Jeremy3292]

As for all the ruckus about LE vs Gen 3 models, it's simple... LE's will be Gen 2.5 hardware and include lifetime Autonomy +, Gen 3 will not be LE and you'll pay for autonomy either monthly or at purchase.

If for some reason they did not do this, that would be one of the worst business decisions ever.

 

[1oki]

1. Rivian needs the data to keep improving its autonomy stack to fulfil the Uber partnership.

2. RAP1 was created to avoid the long-term “Nvidia tax.” (anywhere between 1000 to 2000 savings for the computer package)

3. Lidar modules are much cheaper now than they were in the past, so the added BOM cost is likely much smaller than people assume.

Overall, I think the cost difference between Gen 2.5 and Gen 3 is probably not as significant as people expect. Because of that, I believe Rivian can still honor LE + RAP1 + lidar for customers who received emails stating LE would be available through Dec–Feb deliveries, as long as they reserved before June 30th.

People who ordered earlier understood what they were getting and made their decision based on the information Rivian provided at the time. They didn’t wait for the newer hardware because they wanted the vehicle they were promised.

Rivian can likely justify the small additional cost of lidar because the value of collecting more autonomy data and keeping customers confident in the brand is worth far more than the hardware expense.

That being said if they pass of the cost to me for the lidar and Rap1 + autonomy plus, I'd pay it since im not risking my hardware getting left behind like my HW3 tesla. I would be available little ticked off but whatever I hate subscriptions so I'd pay for lifetime.


Edit: added that I hate subscriptions and changed ordered to reserved

 

[Sharmon]

1. Rivian needs the data to keep improving its autonomy stack to fulfil the Uber partnership.

2. RAP1 was created to avoid the long-term “Nvidia tax.” (anywhere between 1000 to 2000 savings for the computer package)

3. Lidar modules are much cheaper now than they were in the past, so the added BOM cost is likely much smaller than people assume.

Overall, I think the cost difference between Gen 2.5 and Gen 3 is probably not as significant as people expect. Because of that, I believe Rivian can still honor LE + RAP1 + lidar for customers who received emails stating LE would be available through Dec–Feb deliveries, as long as they reserved before June 30th.

People who ordered earlier understood what they were getting and made their decision based on the information Rivian provided at the time. They didn’t wait for the newer hardware because they wanted the vehicle they were promised.

Rivian can likely justify the small additional cost of lidar because the value of collecting more autonomy data and keeping customers confident in the brand is worth far more than the hardware expense.

That being said if they pass of the cost to me for the lidar and Rap1 + autonomy plus, I'd pay it since im not risking my hardware getting left behind like my HW3 tesla. I would be available little ticked off but whatever I hate subscriptions so I'd pay for lifetime.

Very interested in your hopeful take and appreciative of you sharing it. I feel that there has been lots of doubt being cast on a 2026 arrival of RAP1/LIDAR. I'm also on the hopeful boat. Will caveat that my hope is in part because I really want to get the R2 with RAP1/LIDAR as soon as I'm able to order.

This is how I've framed my hopeful take:

RJ doesn’t appear to be hedging his statements about RAP1/LIDAR coming by the end of 2026 (has said it many times, many outlets, and has yet to lengthen the timeline). We’ve already seen a photo of an R2 with LIDAR installed, so it appears to have made it out of the factory and onto the road for testing (do realize I'm putting a lot of hope in one photo).

I think there is every reason for Rivian to try and push RAP1/LIDAR as soon as feasible. The majority of high awareness buyers will already know that RAV1/LIDAR is coming and may be hedging their purchase decisions. By getting it into R2 vehicles as soon as possible they avoid possible purchase hedging, minimize the number of R2s on 2.5 hardware that need ongoing support. And it would reduce further growing the numbers of potentially disappointed 2.5 purchasers when the switch happens, even those who know the upgrade was coming. And as you stated, they also start potentially reaping the benefits of feeding LIDAR into their large driving model. This seemed to be one of the biggest reasons for LIDAR given on autonomy day (and in subsequent interviews), so the sooner the better for Rivian.

That's my hopeful take, but keeping fingers crossed.

 

[Zathras]

Very interested in your hopeful take and appreciative of you sharing it. I feel that there has been lots of doubt being cast on a 2026 arrival of RAP1/LIDAR. I'm also on the hopeful boat. Will caveat that my hope is in part because I really want to get the R2 with RAP1/LIDAR as soon as I'm able to order.

This is how I've framed my hopeful take:

RJ doesn’t appear to be hedging his statements about RAP1/LIDAR coming by the end of 2026 (has said it many times, many outlets, and has yet to lengthen the timeline). We’ve already seen a photo of an R2 with LIDAR installed, so it appears to have made it out of the factory and onto the road for testing (do realize I'm putting a lot of hope in one photo).

I think there is every reason for Rivian to try and push RAP1/LIDAR as soon as feasible. The majority of high awareness buyers will already know that RAV1/LIDAR is coming and may be hedging their purchase decisions. By getting it into R2 vehicles as soon as possible they avoid possible purchase hedging, minimize the number of R2s on 2.5 hardware that need ongoing support. And it would reduce further growing the numbers of potentially disappointed 2.5 purchasers when the switch happens, even those who know the upgrade was coming. And as you stated, they also start potentially reaping the benefits of feeding LIDAR into their large driving model. This seemed to be one of the biggest reasons for LIDAR given on autonomy day (and in subsequent interviews), so the sooner the better for Rivian.

That's my hopeful take, but keeping fingers crossed.

Rivian has stated that there are vehicles out wrapping up testing of the Gen3 hardware. So it's not hard to believe it will be shipping before the end of 2026. What would change that would be something like TSMC not being able to produce enough of the RAP1 and Gen3 hardware to meet demand.

I'm in the Nov. December window with the option to get the Launch Edition. So I'm keeping my mind open. But all this hand-wringing about what is and isn't going to be included with various editions is angels dancing on the head of a pin.

It's pretty clear they are carving out the Launch Edition with free Autonomy+, the towing package, the key fob, and an oppotrunity to purchase Launch Green for $2,000. That pretty much proves that every single R2 that's not Launch Edition is going to charge for the three items, and Launch Green will no longer be available.

If you want the Performance Edition with RAP1 and Gen3 hardware, my guess is you'll have to pay for Autonomy+ just like all the commoners getting lesser trims. But I would be very happy to learn all R2s, including launch editions, after Gen3 becomes available, will have the new hardware. I would not turn that down.

 

[1oki]

Rivian has stated that there are vehicles out wrapping up testing of the Gen3 hardware. So it's not hard to believe it will be shipping before the end of 2026. What would change that would be something like TSMC not being able to produce enough of the RAP1 and Gen3 hardware to meet demand.

I'm in the Nov. December window with the option to get the Launch Edition. So I'm keeping my mind open. But all this hand-wringing about what is and isn't going to be included with various editions is angels dancing on the head of a pin.

It's pretty clear they are carving out the Launch Edition with free Autonomy+, the towing package, the key fob, and an oppotrunity to purchase Launch Green for $2,000. That pretty much proves that every single R2 that's not Launch Edition is going to charge for the three items, and Launch Green will no longer be available.

If you want the Performance Edition with RAP1 and Gen3 hardware, my guess is you'll have to pay for Autonomy+ just like all the commoners getting lesser trims. But I would be very happy to learn all R2s, including launch editions, after Gen3 becomes available, will have the new hardware. I would not turn that down.

We'll see how Rivian handles this. They said the Launch Edition would be available for my delivery window (Nov to Dec), and also for some people with the Dec to Feb timeline.

Doing some back of the napkin math, the RAP1 supply requirement does not seem like it would be a major bottleneck. Assuming roughly 200 RAP1 chips per silicon wafer, that translates to about 100 Gen 3 autonomy modules per wafer since each vehicle requires two RAP1 processors. The amount Rivian would need is relatively small compared to what TSMC is capable of producing.

Because of that, I could see Rivian either breaking even or potentially still making some margin on early Performance Launch Editions equipped with Gen 3 hardware. They almost certainly have an internal cutoff date where Launch Edition benefits stop being included, but from a cost perspective I do not think providing RAP1 and Launch Edition hardware to a limited number of bridge customers would be a significant financial hit.

I could be wrong, but my interpretation is that the supply side probably is not the limiting factor here. It seems more likely that Rivian is managing packaging, pricing, and trim differentiation rather than dealing with a true RAP1 availability constraint.

Maybe this is just my last two brain cells running on copium until we get the official details.

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