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Another great, informative, and concise video by Alex on Autos

Summary points:
  • Doesn't love position of trailer hitch
  • Wished there were better camera views
  • No trailer mirrors which annoyed him
  • Wished there were trailer profiles
  • Side sensors turned off in tow mode (no logical reason)
  • Generally liked the way the R1T handled when towing with the exception of the sway control and the truck feeling like it was surging at times.
  • Stopped charging at 90% to get max regen benefit going down hill (no benefit if you are charged to 100%)
  • 0-60 in 6.9 seconds towing 9,000 pounds!
  • 1.2 mi/kWh towing in a mountainous area
  • Theoretical range of 150 miles before exhausting the battery
  • 2.88 mi/kWh driving without any towing at average speed of 60 mph which was about 360 miles of range on the 21's with aero covers.
A lot of the gripes can be updated with software.


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I am guessing the reason the side sensors turn off when in trailer mode is for safety reasons. A pretty logical, common sense reason at that.

In normal driving, when the sensor does not detect anything, the driver assumes there is nothing there and it is safe to switch lanes or turn. The sensor only detects something in close proximity to the side of the Rivian, not to the side of a trailer. The sensor may not detect anything to the side of the vehicle, but that doesn't mean there isn't something to the side of the trailer.
Rivian probably disables it because they don't want drivers to assume it is "safe" or clear to switch lanes simply because the sensors don't detect anything....there could easily be something far back by the trailer that the sensors aren't picking up.
 

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Some world class nit picking. While I respect his reviews he can be overly whiny over small stuff.

I towed with an SUV that didn't deactivate the side sensors and they were being triggered by the trailer all the time. Very annoying. So logical to disable them.

I have not experienced the "micro surges" that he is talking about. I suspect his load is moving slightly.

Why does it have to feel similar to towing with an ICE? Towing feels barely different from not towing in the R1T. And to me that is the ultimate acknowledgement of it's capability. I would bet good money that the tail is wagging the dog in that Durango. I towed with a similar size SUV and I was fighting the sway constantly. The Rivian is planted and not allowing the trailer to push it around. The few times that the trailer get out of line I can feel the truck firming up to counter it.

Where I do agree. Or my gripes are around Rivian deciding what the settings will be. Same as in general driving where they decide the height etc. When not towing put your foot on the brake and change modes and settings. When in towing it's different. Need to be in park. And why disable adaptive cruise control?
And a big flaw: when unhooking the trailer the truck reverts to the previous drive mode and height setting. This could potentially cause issues when unhooking and the truck lifts up the trailer. So now I make sure to be in all purpose low before hooking up.

Oh, and all i could do was laugh when the complained about the beefyness of the chain hookups (whatever it's called). And if that's not a stupid enough complaint you then see how pathetic the ones on the Durango are.
 

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I am guessing the reason the side sensors turn off when in trailer mode is for safety reasons. A pretty logical, common sense reason at that.

In normal driving, when the sensor does not detect anything, the driver assumes there is nothing there and it is safe to switch lanes or turn. The sensor only detects something in close proximity to the side of the Rivian, not to the side of a trailer. The sensor may not detect anything to the side of the vehicle, but that doesn't mean there isn't something to the side of the trailer.
Rivian probably disables it because they don't want drivers to assume it is "safe" or clear to switch lanes simply because the sensors don't detect anything....there could easily be something far back by the trailer that the sensors aren't picking up.
Ford has blind-spot detection that covers the trailer. Not sure if it’s unique hardware or just software. Also not sure if there are patent/licensing issues…. But it may not be a “safety” issue.
 

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Overall video production quality solid, with the actual review overly negative based upon personal biases.....direct opposite of my towing experience with an almost identical configuration. I've towed with diesels for years and the Rivian hitch based towing experience is incredible (truck and rig). Software can have some tweaks, but you practically don't even know the trailer is there, even with quick lane change accident avoidance. YMMV
 

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He makes the point that he can be hard on vehicles that he likes and I agree that some of his points are nit picky.
 
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Thanks to whoever emailed me to invite me to the forum! It came from a random gmail. Anyway, glad to know there's an active Rivian community.

As to the video, as with all of our content the point is to offer comparisons and critique, i.e. review rather than marketing.

But to address your concerns one at a time:

-Every vehicle currently sold in the USA rated to tow 9,000 pounds or more has a trailer aware blind spot monitoring system. Some require you to enter the trailer dimensions, some auto calculate it as you drive. The Rivian should be capable of this as it is equipped with rear Radar from what Rivian has said. (Except for the R1T)

-No vehicle on sale currently rated with a factory tow rating and adaptive cruise control disables the adaptive functionality when a trailer is connected. All trucks with adaptive cruise control and a factory trailer brake controller will engage the trailer brakes when the ACC system is braking. (Except for the R1T)

-All vehicles with autonomous emergency braking and a factory tow rating still operate the AEB system with a trailer connected. Most (but not all) 1/2 ton trucks equipped with AEB will engage trailer braking and have a stability control profile for AWB with trailers. (Except for the R1T)

-I think you need to re-watch the video when it comes to the safety chain attempt points. What you see as some kind of criticism is merely an observation. I quite literally drive over 160 new cars, trucks and SUVs a year and if you check out the other content on the channel, tow at least weekly with a variety of 5 different trailers. I simply pointed out that the thicker gauge steel may be too thick for some safety chains. This is something we've pointed out on 3/4 and 1-ton trucks as well. No biggie, just means you'll need to get different spring hooks for your chains.

-As far as trailer stability goes, the Rivian's stability control system intervenes early and often despite the Rivian having more lateral grip than an F-150 Lightning. This has the feel that the trailer is wagging the dog so to speak, but in reality it's simply the system's over-eager intervention at work. On down-hill winding roads with 9,100 pounds on the back, the accelerometer we use for testing picked up these interventions and they are quite noticeable vs a Lightning, or any 1/2 ton truck or even mid-size SUV that we have tested on the same stretch with the same trailer.

I suspect and genuinely hope (since I am a Rivian owner in addition to reviewing vehicles for a living) that much of this can be fixed via software updates as everything on this list relates entirely to software. With only a very small number of exceptions, I have towed a max trailer load with every single new vehicle on sale in America that has a factory hitch from a RAV4 Hybrid to an F-450 and everything in-between. The R1T performs very well, but not perfectly. No new vehicle is perfect, but for shoppers looking for how things compare it's important to know what a vehicle does well, and what is perhaps different from the competition.

Thanks for watching everyone!
 
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SASSquatch

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Thanks to whoever emailed me to invite me to the forum! It came from a random gmail. Anyway, glad to know there's an active Rivian community.

As to the video, as with all of our content the point is to offer comparisons and critique, i.e. review rather than marketing.

But to address your concerns one at a time:

-Every vehicle currently sold in the USA rated to tow 9,000 pounds or more has a trailer aware blind spot monitoring system. Some require you to enter the trailer dimensions, some auto calculate it as you drive. The Rivian should be capable of this as it is equipped with rear Radar from what Rivian has said. (Except for the R1T)

-No vehicle on sale currently rated with a factory tow rating and adaptive cruise control disables the adaptive functionality when a trailer is connected. All trucks with adaptive cruise control and a factory trailer brake controller will engage the trailer brakes when the ACC system is braking. (Except for the R1T)

-All vehicles with autonomous emergency braking and a factory tow rating still operate the AEB system with a trailer connected. Most (but not all) 1/2 ton trucks equipped with AEB will engage trailer braking and have a stability control profile for AWB with trailers. (Except for the R1T)

-I think you need to re-watch the video when it comes to the safety chain attempt points. What you see as some kind of criticism is merely an observation. I quite literally drive over 160 new cars, trucks and SUVs a year and if you check out the other content on the channel, tow at least weekly with a variety of 5 different trailers. I simply pointed out that the thicker gauge steel may be too thick for some safety chains. This is something we've pointed out on 3/4 and 1-ton trucks as well. No biggie, just means you'll need to get different spring hooks for your chains.

-As far as trailer stability goes, the Rivian's stability control system intervenes early and often despite the Rivian having more lateral grip than an F-150 Lightning. This has the feel that the trailer is wagging the dog so to speak, but in reality it's simply the system's over-eager intervention at work. On down-hill winding roads with 9,100 pounds on the back, the accelerometer we use for testing picked up these interventions and they are quite noticeable vs a Lightning, or any 1/2 ton truck or even mid-size SUV that we have tested on the same stretch with the same trailer.

I suspect and genuinely hope (since I am a Rivian owner in addition to reviewing vehicles for a living) that much of this can be fixed via software updates as everything on this list relates entirely to software. With only a very small number of exceptions, I have towed a max trailer load with every single new vehicle on sale in America that has a factory hitch from a RAV4 Hybrid to an F-450 and everything in-between. The R1T performs very well, but not perfectly. No new vehicle is perfect, but for shoppers looking for how things compare it's important to know what a vehicle does well, and what is perhaps different from the competition.

Thanks for watching everyone!
Alex - welcome to the forum and thank you for the thoughtful reply.

A common theme you will see in the forum is that folks around here are really interested in seeing R1T reviews and content that employ thorough, transparent, and rigorously designed testing. Many of us are fans of your content and now that you are part of the community, I hope you will stay engaged with us to crowdsource ideas for your future R1T videos.

Also, I want to applaud you for calling BS on the preferential treatment of other YouTubers and reviewers who not only managed to get their hands on an R1T by cutting-the-line in front of tens of thousands of us, but who also managed to get preferential pricing.

Looking forward to your engagement with the community and to your upcoming content.
 

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@EV Buyers Guide, not related to this video, but you may want to pull up tje dashboard in the RIDE menu and track the EVSE current available, the actual current, and the requested current from the truck. As well as the voltage. It would address a lot of the uncertainty you had in your charging video. Most of which I'd he willing to be (because I've observed it multiple times) was the EVGO charger derating dynamically from 500A before the truck does despite it not being particularly hot out. Every ABB charger I've used fails to sustain 500A as long as the truck, and Rivian gives the charger about 25 to 50kw before flagging the charger slowing charging. That's on both EVGO branded and EA chargers in temps as low as the 70s.

EA seems to have generally issued a software update allowing 500A on most of their ABB chargers and then it dynamically derates. I've seen it drop as low as about 325A fairly quickly and then it will oscillate up and down a bit, but fairly gradually.

The EVGO 350kw charger I have used derates very aggressively and seemingly stops momentarily. Which I suspect was what you observed with the spikes rather than the truck causing that.
 

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-As far as trailer stability goes, the Rivian's stability control system intervenes early and often despite the Rivian having more lateral grip than an F-150 Lightning. This has the feel that the trailer is wagging the dog so to speak, but in reality it's simply the system's over-eager intervention at work. On down-hill winding roads with 9,100 pounds on the back, the accelerometer we use for testing picked up these interventions and they are quite noticeable vs a Lightning, or any 1/2 ton truck or even mid-size SUV that we have tested on the same stretch with the same trailer.

Welcome to the forum!

I must say I find my experience on this one different. I just towed a 7k lbs trailer over Wolf Creek Pass, and don't notice this at all coming up or down, while with my Durango and friends F150, with the same trailer, I had to keep it much slower for stability than I did with the R1T.

There were a couple of times I thought to tsk-tsk the truck, but then I realized that I was probably going much faster than what I did in my other vehicles. The R1T cut like 20% off my typical time going up and over the pass (even accounting for the quicker ascent, descent was quite a bit faster too), so I think that was likely the case.
 

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Thanks to whoever emailed me to invite me to the forum! It came from a random gmail. Anyway, glad to know there's an active Rivian community.

Thanks for watching everyone!
Hi Alex - nearly every one of us (including myself) is glad you're here. I've been a long-time subscriber and I think you do a remarkably consistent, excellent job, despite the copious and inexcusable lack of burnouts and/or on-screen max acceleration testing. 😁

I do have a question and a comment:

Q - In your towing testing, were you consistently in stiff suspension setting? I've found the body control when towing in the soft suspension to provide a better ride while still keeping towing shenaniganary under control. Could that have possibily impacted the towing feel you didn't care for?

C - Having watched your other video on the line cutting, I 100% agree with your statement, but I feel like there is a bigger point that needed pointed out. It's best summed up by a comment on the other thread:
I could care less about a dozen or so "influencers" cutting the line. Rivian's failure to follow a relatively sequential and logical delivery schedule for the rest of us is the problem.
It's shitty that Kyle was able to cut the line and bump everyone back a slot, and that Rivian basically allowed him to do so (and not you, considering your sub count is 4-5X his, but I digress) but this whole delivery process is basically a dumpster fire.

For instance - I ordered nearly two years after you. I'm in Pittsburgh, PA not in California (the EV capital of the world). I received my Rivian ahead of schedule in early May - nearly two months before you AND I was able to get my exact configuration. I'm not complaining, mind you, but it's just one little microcosm of a what is clearly a macro event. It might be due to some advance planning, but the lack of any clear and concise communication makes it look much less like an algorithm and much more like anarchy.


BTW - I will call him out - not for asking and cutting line because he is an influencer knew a guy, like, you know, everyone else around him did. But rather for trying to weasel his way out of it instead of owning the situation. I felt the way it was handled was clearly slimy and it disrespected his fans, and the Rivian community as a whole. I was one of the former, and I'm certainly one of the latter.
 
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Hi Alex - nearly every one of us (including myself) is glad you're here. I've been a long-time subscriber and I think you do a remarkably consistent, excellent job, despite the copious and inexcusable lack of burnouts and/or on-screen max acceleration testing. 😁

I do have a question and a comment:

Q - In your towing testing, were you consistently in stiff suspension setting? I've found the body control when towing in the soft suspension to provide a better ride while still keeping towing shenaniganary under control. Could that have possibily impacted the towing feel you didn't care for?

C - Having watched your other video on the line cutting, I 100% agree with your statement, but I feel like there is a bigger point that needed pointed out. It's best summed up by a comment on the other thread:

It's shitty that Kyle was able to cut the line and bump everyone back a slot, and that Rivian basically allowed him to do so (and not you, considering your sub count is 4-5X his, but I digress) but this whole delivery process is basically a dumpster fire.

For instance - I ordered nearly two years after you. I'm in Pittsburgh, PA not in California (the EV capital of the world). I received my Rivian ahead of schedule in early May - nearly two months before you AND I was able to get my exact configuration. I'm not complaining, mind you, but it's just one little microcosm of a what is clearly a macro event. It might be due to some advance planning, but the lack of any clear and concise communication makes it look much less like an algorithm and much more like anarchy.


BTW - I will call him out - not for asking and cutting line because he is an influencer knew a guy, like, you know, everyone else around him did. But rather for trying to weasel his way out of it instead of owning the situation. I felt the way it was handled was clearly slimy and it disrespected his fans, and the Rivian community as a whole. I was one of the former, and I'm certainly one of the latter.
As usual. Extremely well said.
 

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Thanks to whoever emailed me to invite me to the forum! It came from a random gmail. Anyway, glad to know there's an active Rivian community.

As to the video, as with all of our content the point is to offer comparisons and critique, i.e. review rather than marketing.

But to address your concerns one at a time:

-Every vehicle currently sold in the USA rated to tow 9,000 pounds or more has a trailer aware blind spot monitoring system. Some require you to enter the trailer dimensions, some auto calculate it as you drive. The Rivian should be capable of this as it is equipped with rear Radar from what Rivian has said. (Except for the R1T)

-No vehicle on sale currently rated with a factory tow rating and adaptive cruise control disables the adaptive functionality when a trailer is connected. All trucks with adaptive cruise control and a factory trailer brake controller will engage the trailer brakes when the ACC system is braking. (Except for the R1T)

-All vehicles with autonomous emergency braking and a factory tow rating still operate the AEB system with a trailer connected. Most (but not all) 1/2 ton trucks equipped with AEB will engage trailer braking and have a stability control profile for AWB with trailers. (Except for the R1T)

-I think you need to re-watch the video when it comes to the safety chain attempt points. What you see as some kind of criticism is merely an observation. I quite literally drive over 160 new cars, trucks and SUVs a year and if you check out the other content on the channel, tow at least weekly with a variety of 5 different trailers. I simply pointed out that the thicker gauge steel may be too thick for some safety chains. This is something we've pointed out on 3/4 and 1-ton trucks as well. No biggie, just means you'll need to get different spring hooks for your chains.

-As far as trailer stability goes, the Rivian's stability control system intervenes early and often despite the Rivian having more lateral grip than an F-150 Lightning. This has the feel that the trailer is wagging the dog so to speak, but in reality it's simply the system's over-eager intervention at work. On down-hill winding roads with 9,100 pounds on the back, the accelerometer we use for testing picked up these interventions and they are quite noticeable vs a Lightning, or any 1/2 ton truck or even mid-size SUV that we have tested on the same stretch with the same trailer.

I suspect and genuinely hope (since I am a Rivian owner in addition to reviewing vehicles for a living) that much of this can be fixed via software updates as everything on this list relates entirely to software. With only a very small number of exceptions, I have towed a max trailer load with every single new vehicle on sale in America that has a factory hitch from a RAV4 Hybrid to an F-450 and everything in-between. The R1T performs very well, but not perfectly. No new vehicle is perfect, but for shoppers looking for how things compare it's important to know what a vehicle does well, and what is perhaps different from the competition.

Thanks for watching everyone!
Thanks for the follow up! Makes me like your videos even more!
 
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Q - In your towing testing, were you consistently in stiff suspension setting? I've found the body control when towing in the soft suspension to provide a better ride while still keeping towing shenaniganary under control. Could that have possibily impacted the towing feel you didn't care for?
I have used both stiff and soft and different ride heights which you can achieve by going out of towing mode. The likely reason Rivian defaults to stiff when towing is that when you're talking ~1,000 pounds of tongue weight you need to really have your damping under control if you don't have a stiff spring rate. Air suspensions have some modicum of control over their "spring rate" in essence, but all designs are a balance. Light duty trucks tend to favor softer spring rates for better ride and control when unladen. The usual solution from car makers is to adjust the damping rate to keep the suspension from bottoming out, **or** perhaps more critically, simply to control the motion of the suspension. Because of the way the suspension arms move, tire geometry changes as the suspension travels. You can end up with undesirable conditions if the suspension is too often on either end of its travel. This is why load leveling suspensions exist.

Specifically on the feel, it's (in my experience and opinion) more of a trailer sway and stability control problem with just a hint of "that's the way air suspensions are". The design of the Rivian air suspension isn't that far removed from a 3-row Grand Cherokee L or Land Rover design (vehicles that Rivian benchmarked in the design process). Both of those (and to a lesser extent a Grand Wagoneer which is also a 4-corner air suspension vehicle with independent suspension) can exhibit some (for lack of a better term) wobble when towing a heavy trailer since air suspensions are generally tuned towards the compliant side of things, but they don't exhibit the same unusual intervention from the stability control system that I noticed in the Rivian.
 
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@EV Buyers Guide, not related to this video, but you may want to pull up tje dashboard in the RIDE menu and track the EVSE current available, the actual current, and the requested current from the truck. As well as the voltage. It would address a lot of the uncertainty you had in your charging video. Most of which I'd he willing to be (because I've observed it multiple times) was the EVGO charger derating dynamically from 500A before the truck does despite it not being particularly hot out. Every ABB charger I've used fails to sustain 500A as long as the truck, and Rivian gives the charger about 25 to 50kw before flagging the charger slowing charging. That's on both EVGO branded and EA chargers in temps as low as the 70s.

EA seems to have generally issued a software update allowing 500A on most of their ABB chargers and then it dynamically derates. I've seen it drop as low as about 325A fairly quickly and then it will oscillate up and down a bit, but fairly gradually.

The EVGO 350kw charger I have used derates very aggressively and seemingly stops momentarily. Which I suspect was what you observed with the spikes rather than the truck causing that.
At some point we'll re-do the test at that EVGo station, however the charge curve was oddly similar at one of the rare 350kW ChargePoint stations and a brand new EA station.
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